Open fire ventilation

[Millsy 82]

I went to 1 of my local hotels last night for a pint they have 2 huge open fires the main fire in the bar has a grate is probably 1 meter accross the fire alarm went off when the door leading to the other fire was shut and room filled with smoke then all the doors automatically shut then the bar filled with smoke. When I said that the fire requires ventilation to the barman I got it was installed years ago.

I am not HETAS but I would like to know the ventilation requirements so that I can pass it on to hotel

 

[peteheat]

Very similar requirements for gas, oil and open fires, think it's covered under Part J of the building regs.

 

[dancinplumba]

they should get hetas engineer in to check it out
imo

 

[Nostrum]

50% of the throat size opening or 50% of the flue CS area if no throat

 

[Millsy 82]

Yeah gonna tell them to get hetas engineer in. Never touched solid fuel and not going to

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

building regs will look for a minimum of a 100cm2

 

[Millsy 82]

I always thought it was bigger after speaking to a bloke I used to work with he said 200cm2 for a normal 16" grate because I was going to have 1 changed my mind after that.

 

[Roger Welton]

Here's what hetas have to say

http://guide.hetas.co.uk/guide/care_and_maintenance/b3_permanent.html

 

[Pipes Plumbing]

If the fireplace is 1m across it will be classed as non standard and as Sambotc says should hae 50% of the throat or Flue csa if unthroated.

50% of the throat size opening or 50% of the flue CS area if no throat

Definietly worth raising it as a concern, solid fuel fires are WAY worse than gas or oil appliences for the production of CO... They can produce up to 80 times more CO for the same volume of fuel burnt, especially if the wood is not burning completely due to dampness or insfficient air...
In the words of the late Steve Irwin "Danger, Danger"

 

[SimonG]

If the fireplace is 1m across it will be classed as non standard and as Sambotc says should hae 50% of the throat or Flue csa if unthroated.



Definietly worth raising it as a concern, solid fuel fires are WAY worse than gas or oil appliences for the production of CO... They can produce up to 80 times more CO for the same volume of fuel burnt, especially if the wood is not burning completely due to dampness or insfficient air...
In the words of the late Steve Irwin "Danger, Danger"

It's amazing how many people are unaware of the dangers of insufficient ventilation with coal/wood fires. They are under the impression it's only related to gas or oil.

 

[Pipes Plumbing]

Indeed, it's really scary to see the amount of fires and stoves with huge stains from spillage up the walls!

A lot of the time I think the only thing that's stopped a lot of people getting hurt is the fact that many of the older homes with open fires have enough natural draught to support the fire. As people are draughtproofing and insulating these natural air supplies are being sealed up and not replaced with the correct fixed vents. I reckon we are in for a spate of wood fire / stove related injuries in the near future...

One customer refused a CO detectore the other day becase it was "ugly" and didn't go with the colour of her living room...
This was after I'd been asked to have a look because the stove wasn't burning properly. When I got there the vent was sealed up with tape because it "let in a draught when the stove was lit"...

Go figure!

 

[peteheat]

One customer refused a CO detectore the other day becase it was "ugly" and didn't go with the colour of her living room...
This was after I'd been asked to have a look because the stove wasn't burning properly. When I got there the vent was sealed up with tape because it "let in a draught when the stove was lit"...

Go figure!

Problem with that is if the worst happens someone will remember you were there and of course Pipes Plumbing didn't do anything so it must his fault that he missed C0 leaking into the room.

Cover yourself with a written quote to install the C0 detector and a Stadium "Black Hole Ventilator" they have baffles built in to prevent draughts.

 

[Puddle]

So the op was sat in the bar ,full of smoke,spluttering away and all the smokers were outside breathing in nice fresh air,looking through the window ,sounds about right!

 

[Pipes Plumbing]

Problem with that is if the worst happens someone will remember you were there and of course Pipes Plumbing didn't do anything so it must his fault that he missed C0 leaking into the room.

Cover yourself with a written quote to install the C0 detector and a Stadium "Black Hole Ventilator" they have baffles built in to prevent draughts.

Trust me, I have made sure I'm 100% covered on that one... No way was I leaving it as was, I have a written quote submitted and an inspection report signed by them with my recomendations on.
The tape was taken off the vent (and explained why - again) before I left, I wouldn't like to guess if it stayed off for long though!

Good advice for everyone that, make sure you are all covered lots of people seem to think it's safe because it's not gas!

 

[Nostrum]

Yeah unfortunately HETAS and Gassafe differ in as such as you have no power to isolate or de-commission an unsafe solid fuel appliance in the same way you have with gas! At least with gas you can contact the supplier or at least use it as a way of making the customer see sense.

 

[Pipes Plumbing]

You're right on it being much harder to take an appliance out of service without making it even more dangerous should the customer decide to light it...
I just make sure that a warning label was attached to the appliance, and that I've had the customer sign the inspection report & Warning / Advice note, after explaining it all to them and making sure they understood.
I tend to put wording like "The (state which appliance) is not in a safe condition for use and may present a danger to life & wellbeing if used." Once the customer has signed this you are in the clear and it is down to them if they remove your label and ignore your warning.

 

[Roger Welton]

I also take a piccy with my phone of the appliance with sticker on it, just to cover all bases.