Open vent CH. Heating works, but hot water very poor

[gungaabayar]

Hi All
Moved in a flat with open vented CH system. 2 Water tanks in the loft. Cylinder in cupboard. Ideal Logic + Heat only boiler Installed 2014.
Power flush done, pump changed. And heating system works very good.

Problem is hot water. As soon as put hot water on, boiler keep switchs on and off. Cylinder gets hot very slow. Alot hissing , gurgling water around the boiler is heard.

What I noticed is cold water feed connected to return pipe just before boiler rather than between pump and vent pipe. Ive read on installation manual of the boiler that cold water feed MUST connect to the flow side between pump and vent pipe. Could it be the cause of the poor hot water system. If I get it right hot water works normal?

Anyone please give me a advice please
I wanted to send photo of pipe connection in airing cupboard but dnt know how.

cheers
DG

 

[rpm]

Welcome to the forum DG, for advise on how to post photographs find the "New members please read", as a new member your posts will be held in a queue until a mod clears them for spam and naughties but this will only last for around 10 posts then your clear to go. All the mods are at work during the day so expect posts to appear later on.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Proberly got an air problem in cylinder coil, does the vent going to the small tank [22mm pipe] come from pipe that goes into side of hot water cylinder ? if not & pipe goes direct into cylinder then you need a auto air vent fitting.

 

[gungaabayar]

Ok I will post the photos of the pipe connections soon.
Cheers

 

[dancinplumba]

Boiler sounds full of carp, its kettling, can't dissipate heat through cylinder, coil could be furred up if hard water area

 

[gungaabayar]

Proberly got an air problem in cylinder coil, does the vent going to the small tank [22mm pipe] come from pipe that goes into side of hot water cylinder ? if not & pipe goes direct into cylinder then you need a auto air vent fitting.

Can you look at the diagram I drawn. Is the any problem with this map. There are 2 very little leak
in the bypass valve and the nut just before the DHW zone valve.
im not really not sure the pipe comes from top of the cylinder goes to the big tank in the loft. I noticed tWO 22 mm pipes cones out of the big thank and a vent pipe into big tank.

How to get rid off the air in cylinder coil and where the AAV Needed to be fit

cheers
DG

 

[DrainMedic]

Have you tried bleeding off the cylinder coil? And have you made sure that the lock shield (if fitted) for the cylinder coil is open?

You our may or may not have a gate valve, or some other valve on the coil, ensure this is fully open for testing. Then the upper cylinder coil connection should ( but may not!) have a bleed vent. If it hasn't then this is likely the cause of the boiler kettling.

It's possible that the powerflushing contractor has closed off a valve somewhere and forgot to open it back up. It's also possible that the power flushing contractor is a huge vulva and has done something else wrong (I get loads - 2 a week at least - of powerflushers messing systems up that just needed a bit of tlc!)

if your upper cylinder connection does have a vent and you're able to open this to release air, and the system works afterwards then great. If it works for a while and then more air accumulates, then an auto air vent is the way to go.

I think you should do the job overnight then you can keep me company between jobs! I always have to wait ages for responses 'coz everyone's asleep!

 

[gungaabayar]

Have you tried bleeding off the cylinder coil? And have you made sure that the lock shield (if fitted) for the cylinder coil is open?

You our may or may not have a gate valve, or some other valve on the coil, ensure this is fully open for testing. Then the upper cylinder coil connection should ( but may not!) have a bleed vent. If it hasn't then this is likely the cause of the boiler kettling.

It's possible that the powerflushing contractor has closed off a valve somewhere and forgot to open it back up. It's also possible that the power flushing contractor is a huge vulva and has done something else wrong (I get loads - 2 a week at least - of powerflushers messing systems up that just needed a bit of tlc!)

if your upper cylinder connection does have a vent and you're able to open this to release air, and the system works afterwards then great. If it works for a while and then more air accumulates, then an auto air vent is the way to go.

I think you should do the job overnight then you can keep me company between jobs! I always have to wait ages for responses 'coz everyone's asleep!

I would like to send photos of the boiler and cylinder connections but this forum dont let me submit a photo.

Anyway, upper cylinder connection have lockshield valve fitted. but the Im not able to turn the valve head because it is same level as the spindle (or gland - whatever called) I need special rectangle key I think, I will find and try to release air).

I cant see any Gate valve in the coil connections.

I do get hot water even boiler switches ON and OFF, alot hissing and gurgling during heating the cylinder. But it should not work like that I think.

I will let you know guys once try to release the air in the cylinder coil.

cheers
DG

 

[Dotty]

Create a photobucket account. Link to the photos from there.

 

[gungaabayar]

Create a photobucket account. Link to the photos from there.

I created photobucket account and uploaded photos. And copied those photos link in my posts. But forum said limited URL in post. Even dont let me include a URL. Dnt know why.

 

[Dotty]

I created photobucket account and uploaded photos. And copied those photos link in my posts. But forum said limited URL in post. Even dont let me include a URL. Dnt know why.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/new-member-introductions/59145-how-get-started-ukpf.html

Read post 2

 

[gungaabayar]

Have you tried bleeding off the cylinder coil? And have you made sure that the lock shield (if fitted) for the cylinder coil is open?

You our may or may not have a gate valve, or some other valve on the coil, ensure this is fully open for testing. Then the upper cylinder coil connection should ( but may not!) have a bleed vent. If it hasn't then this is likely the cause of the boiler kettling.

It's possible that the powerflushing contractor has closed off a valve somewhere and forgot to open it back up. It's also possible that the power flushing contractor is a huge vulva and has done something else wrong (I get loads - 2 a week at least - of powerflushers messing systems up that just needed a bit of tlc!)

if your upper cylinder connection does have a vent and you're able to open this to release air, and the system works afterwards then great. If it works for a while and then more air accumulates, then an auto air vent is the way to go.

I think you should do the job overnight then you can keep me company between jobs! I always have to wait ages for responses 'coz everyone's asleep!

Hi
I managed to release an air from coil using upper cylinder connection vent. Not a lot air there. Even I tried to open the vent While DHW is on and there is no air there.

I noticed that when only DHW is on then the pipe beyond heating valve gets hot little bit.

Say again, heating works no problem.

Any idea idea what the problem is.
Cheers

 

[DrainMedic]

The valve you mention (the one you need a square key for) - have you now managed to open that fully?

Also, find the 2 or 3 port valve and ensure that is open by using the lever on the side of the valve. when you operate this lever, the pump and boiler should kick in.

Please try this and report back

 

[gungaabayar]

The valve you mention (the one you need a square key for) - have you now managed to open that fully?

Also, find the 2 or 3 port valve and ensure that is open by using the lever on the side of the valve. when you operate this lever, the pump and boiler should kick in.

Please try this and report back

That was vent valve rather than lockshield one sorry. I opened it and no air was there. I can see the lever on the side of the 2 port valves. I dnt know which way is open. I thought both supposed to be closed and it is opened when request come in. Not sure

Ive sent several photos to you

waiting for your next advice

 

[DrainMedic]

The lever on the two port valve should be pushed one way and then locked into position in the little slot.
From the images you've message me, you've got an s plan system without a lockshield on the cylinder coil. With the set up you have, the only two probables are air in the coil (but you say you've bled this) and a failed two port valve.
Just because the system fires up, doesn't mean the two port valve is working. In thory, the boiler won't fire until the two port valve is open, but the valve head doesn't know when the wet side of the valve is open, only when the actuator is in the open position.
I believe the two port valve has failed and that's why the boiler can't lose its heat through the cylinder and therefore it's overheating. For testing purposes (only!) try removing the valve and linking it through with a compression coupling, using the valves nuts. Then try to get your hot water on. If the valves failed, the cylinder will heat up. Obviously when I say to remove the valve, I mean in plumbing terms, don't disconnect it electrically too!

It's a very simple system and there isn't much that can go wrong with it.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Its clear that OP doesn't understand how his system is working , so rather than start messing around with things and causing unnecessary damage he is better off paying someone to call and sort his problems B4 he floods his house or electrocutes himself

 

[stevetheplumber]

if there is no air or water at the vent get in the loft and check the tank is full and the ballvalve working

 

[gungaabayar]

The lever on the two port valve should be pushed one way and then locked into position in the little slot.
From the images you've message me, you've got an s plan system without a lockshield on the cylinder coil. With the set up you have, the only two probables are air in the coil (but you say you've bled this) and a failed two port valve.
Just because the system fires up, doesn't mean the two port valve is working. In thory, the boiler won't fire until the two port valve is open, but the valve head doesn't know when the wet side of the valve is open, only when the actuator is in the open position.
I believe the two port valve has failed and that's why the boiler can't lose its heat through the cylinder and therefore it's overheating. For testing purposes (only!) try removing the valve and linking it through with a compression coupling, using the valves nuts. Then try to get your hot water on. If the valves failed, the cylinder will heat up. Obviously when I say to remove the valve, I mean in plumbing terms, don't disconnect it electrically too!

It's a very simple system and there isn't much that can go wrong with it.

ok thanks very much. We will try to the test what you suggested. I will do with my plumberish friend. Dnt think he will flood my house or elecricute us.
I completely understand what you mean which is Just need to get rid of the valve temporary to let hot water through cylinder coil.

Let you know sooner or letter.

Many thanks

 

[gungaabayar]

if there is no air or water at the vent get in the loft and check the tank is full and the ballvalve working

there is a water in vent. Ive checked the tank in loft. Thank is full of water.

 

[gungaabayar]

Thing is hot water sometimes manages passing through the valve and get the water in cylinder hot ish very slowly. What does it say? The valve opens sometimes?

 

[jtsplumbing]

ok thanks very much. We will try to the test what you suggested. I will do with my plumberish friend. Dnt think he will flood my house or elecricute us.
I completely understand what you mean which is Just need to get rid of the valve temporary to let hot water through cylinder coil.

Let you know sooner or letter.

Many thanks

Your Plumberish Friend ? that says it all ! by that I take it he's done a few minor plumbing jobs at home ! and now he knows all about it, and your going to let him loose on your house ?? Good Luck

 

[gungaabayar]

Your Plumberish Friend ? that says it all ! by that I take it he's done a few minor plumbing jobs at home ! and now he knows all about it, and your going to let him loose on your house ?? Good Luck

Dont worry buddy. I will ask plumber to do the job anyway. I just want to understand how it works , what went wrong and what possible issue is here.

 

[DrainMedic]

Haha I think I love your "plumberish friend"

don't be disheartened by a tough problem. As long as you can drain it down and refill it with your friend, without flooding your house or electrocuting yourself, you'll be sound.

If if it all goes breasts up, and you do flood your house, call en emergency plumber! I've heard DrainMedic are good...........;-)

 

[gungaabayar]

Hi all

Today was my day. I sorted the problem out without spending a penny. A New pump Grundfos Alpha 2L was installed week ago by a plumber. It has 4 speeds which I can choose pressing a button on the pump. The installer selected speed 4 which is fastest. Today Ive read its manual and it says select a speed between 1 and 2 in the small house( or flat). Ive changed the speed to 1 and HEY PRESTO. NO GURGLING NO HISSING NO BOILER CUT OUT. Cylinder has full of hot water within half an hour. Later on I put heating on as well just in case. It works fine.

Thanks everybody who tried to help me. And the one who wished me good luck.
DG.