Overflowing F + E

[csweet]

My friend asked me to have a look in his loft as there was a leak and I found the F + E was overflowing. It was full of cold, brown water. I think the system needs cleaning and an inhibitor to be used but want to ask advice as this would be my first attempt at a plumbing job. Going to use Sentinal products to clean and think the ball cock needs to be lowered.

Am I right in my assumption or is there something else to look at?

Any help appreciated

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

can you see if the water is coming from the ball valve or is it from the expansion pipe (vent) that hangs over the top?

If its the ball valve replace and lower to about and inch and a half over the feed

I'd say use fernox but sentinal isn't too bad

 

[csweet]

can you see if the water is coming from the ball valve or is it from the expansion pipe (vent) that hangs over the top?

If its the ball valve replace and lower to about and inch and a half over the feed

I'd say use fernox but sentinal isn't too bad

There isn't any water from either but think it might be when the radiators are on, perhaps? I'll have a look for Fernox - is 'No Nonsense' any good?

Thanks Tom...

 

[csweet]

Ok, when my mate put on the thermostat (and thus the pump) on for the radiators a trickle of water was coming out of the vent pipe and then stopped once we turned off the thermostat. When I went to drain it off from the valve near the pump nothing came out and the none of the radiators have drain off valve. He had the pump and one radiator changed in the last 6 months but hasn't used the radiators for at least 2 months. Am I going to have to undo the radiator fitting on the lowest radiator to drain the system and can I isolate so I only get the contents of one radiator as opposed to 6 at once?

Any help appreciated,

Craig

 

[Puddle]

You can get a drain cock that clamps on the pipework and screws through the pipe and then you can drain,much like the old washing machine self cut valves
this will allow you to part drain and add chemicals

When you come to flush through,drain system and fit a tee piece with a good flushing point,do not try flushing through a drain cock,you will not get enough flow through

imho

 

[csweet]

You can get a drain cock that clamps on the pipework and screws through the pipe and then you can drain,much like the old washing machine self cut valves
this will allow you to part drain and add chemicals

When you come to flush through,drain system and fit a tee piece with a good flushing point,do not try flushing through a drain cock,you will not get enough flow through

imho

Cheers Puddle

 

[tamz]

Use x800. Drain and refill system add x800 and leave for a few days.
This will give you a few days to figure out why it is pumping over THEN cure the cause. It's not hard. If you don't cure the cause your efforts are a waste of time.
I'm not going to tell you because if you are going to do this for a living you need to know how to work it out. Try using your head and maybe post and ask if you are right. When you have figured that out stick in some x100

 

[Magicplumb]

If the expansion pipe is pumping over into F/E tank, this will eventually lead to the steel and any iron components i.e. Radiators, corroding from the inside out. This is caused by the water being passed through the atmosphere and being re oxygenated.

The first problem to solve is why it is pumping over. This is more than likely due the fact that the pipe work and tee pieces around the boiler and pump have been fitted incorrectly.

If it’s impossible to correct the pipe work in this area.
Then a quick fix can sometimes be to make a combined cold feed and expansion. This is done by teeing the cold feed into expansion and fitting a blank end or airing point on the cold feed at the F/E tank. This will prevent C/F and EX pipe being an open circuit.

The above in my book is not good practice, but it’s better to prevent the corrosion.

Always read the manufactures instructions before commencing any work !

 

[csweet]

Use x800. Drain and refill system add x800 and leave for a few days.
This will give you a few days to figure out why it is pumping over THEN cure the cause. It's not hard. If you don't cure the cause your efforts are a waste of time.
I'm not going to tell you because if you are going to do this for a living you need to know how to work it out. Try using your head and maybe post and ask if you are right. When you have figured that out stick in some x100

Mate, why did you bother even writing this if you aren't going to help? I'm not asking you to do it for me, I'm asking a professional there opinion. Have you never posted a question on here then? I'll put it down to a bad day or PMT or something.

 

[tamz]

Why did you want to be a plumber if you are not willing to learn how to figure it out? Telling you is the easy way out and you would learn nothing. Think why it is doing what it is doing and how you could solve it. As i said it is not difficult to figure out and i did say to post back what you thought them i would have told you if you were on the right track. You won't have the tinternet to help you all the time.

I have never posted a question as i don't need to. I've done it for 40 years. I do however offer advice but with things like this you need to learn and understand why things happen and i would guide you. Any idiot can shove some speedfit together and call themselves a "plumber"

 

[csweet]

Why did you want to be a plumber if you are not willing to learn how to figure it out? Telling you is the easy way out and you would learn nothing. Think why it is doing what it is doing and how you could solve it. As i said it is not difficult to figure out and i did say to post back what you thought them i would have told you if you were on the right track. You won't have the tinternet to help you all the time.

I have never posted a question as i don't need to. I've done it for 40 years. I do however offer advice but with things like this you need to learn and understand why things happen and i would guide you. Any idiot can shove some speedfit together and call themselves a "plumber"

Couldn't agree more with you, only learn by mistakes. And I did post my thoughts as to what I thought I should do or what would work. I've done a basic course and DO NOT call myself a plumber but helping out a mate. I wouldn't attempt anything that I thought was beyond me and we covered some of this. I'm going back to college to do my 6129 in sept and the reason I want to be a plumber is that my current line of work I can't be my own boss without substantial money backing. I believe the reason it is venting because the thermo is knackered. Can't think of why the drain valve won't drain but the pump was replaced recently and may have been damaged when reconnecting. I've been advised that it maybe the washer stuck inside the valve so have a closer look. I don't question your abilities or motives, but it wasn't helpful to read that...

 

[tamz]

So start with what you know

"I found the F + E was overflowing. It was full of cold, brown water."
Why would it overflow if the ballcock is not passing? and why the brown water? You already know it needs flushing.

"mate put on the thermostat (and thus the pump) on for the radiators a trickle of water was coming out of the vent pipe and then stopped once we turned off the thermostat"
Big clue that one. It is a circulation or pipework problem. Anything done recently that may have changed things as presumably it has never always done that?

"He had the pump and one radiator changed in the last 6 months"
So he had a new pump fitted. What is the current speed setting on the pump?
Magic plumb told you the effects of pumping over and a quick, though not ideal fix to wrongly configured F&E pipework. It causes a build up of corrosion and sludge which increases the resistance through the pipework which makes it pump over more and get worse.

Now you have the information you need to solve the problem and also the probable cause.

Start with a flush out. Puddle told you a way to solve the drain issue and improve the flush.
When you fire it up again set the pump speed to suit the system. This means start at speed 1 and balance the system to give an 11 deg temperature drop between flow and return (it is 20 on a condenser) If it can't be achieved at 1 turn it to 2. There are certain exceptions to this but this is enough to begin with.

Learn a bit about resistances through pipework, index circuits and how to read a pump graph.
Read this [DLMURL]http://www.copperinfo.co.uk/plumbing-heating-and-sprinklers/downloads/pub-150-copper-tubes-in-domestic-heating-systems.pdf[/DLMURL]
You don't need to learn it but it will help you understand a bit better.

Simple innit 😉