Pipe freezing to fit new rads.

[TerryH]

Gents,
I have a job next week that involves fitting two new radiators in the basement of a large Victorian house.
Usually I drain down c/h systems, fit the pipework and rads and then re-fill. The drain-down and re-fill are really time consuming and often there are air-locks to contend with as I'm sure you all know.

Has anyone used an electric pipe-freezer to allow work on the pipe, ie soldering the 't' in my case? It sounds a bit dodgy to me if the frozen plug is too close to the heat then I'm going to be sitting in water.

For one rad. the pipes are vertical, for the other horizontal; both are 15mm.
I know the freezer would save a lot of time and hassle but I envision three stories of radiator water descending upon me, flooding the basement and me feeling like a complete d##k! That would just be the start of the problems
I'd be interested for any experiences with pipe-freezers in general.
Thanks.
Terry.

 

[John t]

Wouldn't an electric feezer stay frozen until you unplugged it Terry? Unlike the time limit you have on the Aerosol type.
Would like to try one myself but aren't they about £700!

has this system got an expansion tank so you can plug the pipes up to create a vacuum Terry?

 

[ajs heating]

lovely bit of kit if you stick to keeping the distance from the freezing heads not a problem.
if i can't get to much distance i wrap the heads in a wet t towel and let them freeze.
and place maybe another wet rag infront of the head.
if you can do one pipe at a time use both heads on one pipe gives better ice plug.
use them oppersite each other or 6" gap giving a longer ice plug.

if its an old system i take it vented why don't you bung the system.
i've never had a bunged system fail yet and always have a few pushfit stop ends to hand.

BUT I LIKE LIVING ON THE EDGE OF FEAR.

 

[spacethegas]

it makes no odds how hot the water is as long as the pump is off. with an electric pipe freezer once frozen stays frozen.best to freeze around on elbow, an ice plug wont shoot out.
i bought a freezemaster some years ago, woz great.
didnt use it for months & it stopped working.
phoned them up & apparently it needs recharging or summit. costs a fortune.

They dont tell you when you shell out all that cash that when not used regularly it should be opperated once a week.

UNHAPPY

 

[John t]

They dont tell you when you shell out all that cash that when not used regularly it should be opperated once a week.

UNHAPPY

Made a note of that one Spacegas!

 

[TerryH]

Thanks for all the replies.

I thought of hiring one for the day, they're about £60 though! That's really why I wanted your experiences. No point lashing out all that cash if it fails.... but it all sounds very encouraging.

I've heard of plugging the sysyem, it is a vented system, John T, unlike you and AJS I'm a bit of a girlie! More visions of Biblical floods . Bunging the system, living life to the limits..... Is there no weep of water that will prevent soldering AJS?

Yes, I also wondered about working on each pipe, using both heads and freezing at a distance, as you say it stays frozen all the while the machine is plugged in.

The Freezemasters are expensive, especially if the thing breaks down or needs re-charging, I'm pleased you mentioned that. Forewarned and all!

So, thanks for taking the time and for the help, gents.

I went on an Aqualisa shower free day to-day. Brilliant... costs nothing lots of good information, free coffee and biscuits, free buffet lunch, a bag of goodies and some really cheap deals too.
I'm going to book the courses for digital showers and pumps. It was that good!

Terry H

 

[John t]

Where's the course at Terry

 

[TerryH]

John T, the course I went to is held at their main factory in Westerham, Kent but I know they use a couple of other venues, if you use this link it will help,
[DLMURL="http://www.aqualisa.co.uk/Trade/Trade-Counter/Training/Training-dates-and-venues/"]Training dates and venues - Aqualisa[/DLMURL]
..... as I say if you have some spare time, it's a good investment!

As for the pipe freezing malarky, I've taken the plunge and will hire one on Tuesday. I 'phoned Freezemaster and they were very helpful. So, look here again on Wednesday or Thursday for more news!
Will I be cursing or will I be praising?
The answer......
........ next week
TerryH.

 

[PH951]

Ive used one to change a rad, It takes about 10 mins to defrost when the pipe freezer is removed.

 

[Alanka]

Here's my three pennyworth on electric pipe freezers.

I bought a Clarke nearly five years ago, and at first it worked brilliantly. The only drawbacks at that stage were its great initial cost (about £680), its weight (23kg) and sharp-cornered awkward shape, and the relatively bulky freezing heads and clamps, which made connecting it to cramped pipework difficult, if not impossible in some situations (e.g. under floorboards).

After about a year it started to let me down (disastrously) by suddenly thawing! Then it would be OK for a few weeks, and then let me down again. I could no longer trust the thing! A freezer engineer checked it out and recommended a refill of refrigerant, which worked for a while but cost £60 plus delivery costs.

It started playing up again after a few months, so this time I returned it to the manufacturers at great cost who tested and refilled it again, with the same disappointing results. More expense and still unreliable.

Finally I sold it (at great loss) to a freezer expert who explained that the problem with pipe freezers (and incidentally vehicle air-con systems) is that the new approved environmentally friendly refrigerant gases used nowadays have smaller molecules, which enables them to leak through the pores in the flexible hoses much more rapidly than with the old (now illegal) refrigerants! I wish someone had mentioned this before!

I now use a cheap and extremely lightweight freezer kit that runs on disposable canisters. It's proved 100% reliable, and you soon get the knack of organising the job to complete it within the 15 - 20 minutes or so that you've got. If you really need longer you can easily run in some more refrigerant. I charge the customer for the amount of refrigerant I use on his job.

The freezing 'heads' are tiny and soft, therefore tight access is no problem, and it's as light as a feather so you can freeze pipe halfway up a wall (try that with a 23kg lump!)

 

[TerryH]

Alanka,
That was really helpful! Sorry you had such a bad time with your freezer. Surely the companies that produce such expensive kit would provide some form of back-up, that really is disgraceful, I think.
I was very interested to hear your views on the alternative, if it's what I'm thinking, aren't they about £120? Much more reasonable and easier to cost on a job. The Freezemaster I hired cost £54 for 24hrs.
It worked like a dream holding back the Flood. Here again, Alanka, you must have been, shall we say, miffed, when your machine began to thaw. A nightmare, mate!

For convenience I nailed a full-bore isolator to the flow and return that allowed me all the time I needed to fit the pipework. It was expensive but I finished the job on time and did not have the hassle of drain down, re-fill, bleed, run and air-locks.
It's a method I would use again. However considering the price for hire and the complications of purchase and maintenance, I may well do what you suggested, Alanka.
Thanks again for the opinions, it all helps.
T