Plastic/copper at radiators

[mo7]

I know the plastic/copper argument has been done to death - I've got 2 particular questions for my own scenario though...

My default psoition would be to have copper but I have 2 reasons preventing that at the moment

1) I have had a new floor put in with brand new joists and I hear notching joists makes them more vulnerable than putting holes in them - I am probably over thinking it

2) If I go copper then the notches need to be put in ASAP before the floor goes in whereas if we go with plastic he can come back later and do the holes through joists.

Question 1 - lets say I go plastic - I hear one beenfit is less joins but don't you still have lots of joins in the floor space as they bend round to enter rooms - maybe not as many as copper but still some... ?

The central heating guy has offered me full copper or 15mm plastic which goes down to 10mm microbore allowing the pipes to enter behind the radiator.

Now I also know the 15mm v 10mm argument has been done to death.

I was going to propose 15mm plastic in voids and 15mm copper for pipes visible as they enter the room - I believe this is standard practice with palstic piping as peopel don;t want plastic on show.

I knwo there have been criticisms for 10mm microbore, as far as I udnerstand he is proposing the switch from 15mm to 100 as you come down the wal so it is behind the dot and dab. Whilst it might look neater there is a potential issue with putting nails into the pipe I spose.

Question 2 - what would you go for?

I'll sneak quetsion 3 in..

Question 3 - is either of those materials better to chase and sink into concrete floors or is a no no?

 

[AWheating]

copper is the best material if you can afford the extra cost. you could consider 10mm copper behind the dot and dab inline with the radiator valve positions. This will work well if you have all your rad sizes and fixture positions agreed.

i would avoid pipework in solid floors if possible. copper its the best material if protected and tested correctly.

as for drilling/hitting the pipes in the wall.........doh drill where they am

as long as the drill zone or notches are in line with the building regs they will be fine.

 

[Elgordo]

Copper is proven over a long time to do the job best , plastic is far cheaper and easier to install but looks rough where it's visible feeding the rads , it's a matter of taste v pocket . Both will do th job well but personally I'd go for copper if you can afford it

 

[mo7]

I;ve had conflicting advice about the gas pipe

One person is saying you shouldn;t have gas pipes in in accessible palces but is still saying it is OK to bury in trunking under the floor.

I think this guy is more concerned about accessibillity in event of a problem.

Other is just saying no problem stick it underground.

 

[dancinplumba]

Plastic is fine unseen, great for cabling, bore is smaller 15=12 10=6mm used it since it came out, have it in my house 25 years, yet to have a problem

 

[lame plumber]

question to ask first with plastic is, are you at risk of having mice,rats or squirels move in when it gets cold as happens in the countryside locations on a regular basis and in towns if your neighbours are of the unclean type. One mouse can reap havic in a plastic pipe system, as seen on several occassions It is amazing how quickly a ceiling has to be ripped open to trace mouse damage!!!

 

[dancinplumba]

Cats mate

 

[AWheating]

gas is fine burried in screed if protected correctly.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I prefer copper to radiators

 

[quality]

there should be a law against visible plastic to rads

 

[IDCHAPPY]

there should be a law against visible plastic to rads

10000% agree, looks terrible

 

[mo7]

gas is fine burried in screed if protected correctly.

Some say wrap in tape some say put it into trunking

What do you reckon?

 

[samwilko]

Plastic coated copper.

 

[SimonG]

Copper, copper and more copper.

 

[Ermintrude]

U can drill cooper through floor . It's easy. U drill joists in line then Feed it in as walls go up. Or bend it and Feed it in (15 easy)

No plastic on show.

Run full un joined lengths back to manifold in accessible location ok .

 

[Ermintrude]

I don't like to advocate plastic

 

[Stanios]

its not the plastic pipe its the fittings that you should worry about. Failed pushfit fittings flooding a house is not unheard of

 

[dancinplumba]

Before pushfit it was comp or poorly soldered joint, before that we were getting lead poisoning.

 

[mo7]

OK so having spoken to some central heating guys now plus online discussions it seems

you have:

-copper only people

-people who will do both but prefer copper

-people who very much advocate plastic over copper

The feedback I had had with plastic as mentioned is that they do fail but its usually down to the person who installed it not fitting the connection properly - cutting the pipe wrongly, not tighenting connectors, not using inserts - maybe there is more to go wrong with plastic whereas with copper its more routine?

The other thing is that the negative feedback about plastci generally seems to be going back and repairing mistakes amde by DIYers.

One guy told me around 10% of his business is going round sorting out plastic issues.

 

[Best]

Copper pipe & fittings must now be a lot cheaper than plastic pipe & plastic fittings + inserts.
And you often need MORE fittings if you use plastic, because plastic pipe can need 90 degree bends where copper can be bent or offset.
Copper is more self supporting. It can take plenty of heat, whereas plastic pipes will disintegrate if a boiler overheats.
Copper can be fed through drilled joists if you have space - like where other joists are meeting them, or if you drill a wall or remove a brick. Or you could use microbore (I hate it though)
I seem to find or hear of loads of houses that have leaks now that plastic push fit has become common.

 

[SimonG]

The only problem with plastic is the installation. People think its easy and dont follow the instructions. I wonder how many people pressure test it to the correct pressure?

 

[AMW]

Only ever use plastic if absoluty have to 99% of the time it's copper, plastic never looks good imho.

 

[Stanios]

The only problem with plastic is the installation. People think its easy and dont follow the instructions. I wonder how many people pressure test it to the correct pressure?

Its not even a straight forward test since plastic pipe expands under pressure

 

[SimonG]

Its not even a straight forward test since plastic pipe expands under pressure

Pretty straight forward to me. When the gauge says 10 bar then jts 10 bar.

 

[Stanios]

Pretty straight forward to me. When the gauge says 10 bar then jts 10 bar.

On large systems there will be a drop after 2 min in my experience