Pls help...Power flush really needed?

[KellyP]

Hi All,

I'm new to website and would appreciate any advice re some problems I've been having with CH/Boiler over last few days.

I initially contacted my insurance company re my rads heating up when my hot water came on via timer, I was concerned I was paying for energy I didn't want to use at the time. A plumber came out and after I insisted this hadn't happened previously he replaced the 3 port valve in system.
That evening one of my rads decided to leak and I had this replaced a couple of days later by same guy who told me that I needed a power flush as the water came out black (it was water that ran out rather than a sludge, inside the rusted rad there is a build up of black stuff that you can take out with your finger.) I was also told this last year but heating worked fine all winter.

After the valve and rad were replaced I have had non stop problems with the boiler losing/building up pressure and the flame will not fire up if I want to manually put CH on.
The rads are still warming with hot water coming on but the bolier now keeps losing pressure after system has been on and then when I fill up via taps in cupboard it will go up to 2.8. My hubby has bled rads and at weekend tried to drain some water from system although none came out.
The same guy has been back and tried to drain some water, first he told me he thought a washer had blocked the drain off pipe which I asked him to replace but he had none with him! He managed to bang the pipe and get some black water from the pipe but again told me it was all blocked due to needing PF and not a washer blocking it?

I don't want to offend any plumbers on here :redface: but am concerned this guy is not looking at the boiler correctly, I don't understand why my pressure has decided to fluctuate after having a valve replaced. I hope he is not telling me a PF is the only answer now to earn a few hundred pounds...
My system is 8 years old and the boiler is a Gloworm 18si

I have also been advised by a friend that sometimes a PF can cause problems with corrosion (SP) to components within the system and has suggested an alternative where a less harsh chemical is put in system, left for two weeks and then the system is flushed with water - Anyone know how effective this is? My rads have plastic pipes rather than copper and I don't want a PF if I am going to have probs after, on the other hand I don't want to have the alternative flush if it won't fix the issue and I also end up paying out for a PF after all.

Any advice is appreciated, I have a 7 week old baby and will need my heating to be reliable in the next few weeks and as you can imagine parting with a few hundred quid at the mo is challenging!

Thanks All

 

[justalex81]

sounds like the expansion vessel in the boiler has gone which would cause the pressure loss issues. did he change the whole 3 port valve or just the head? i would bet he's only changed the head when the problem is the valve is stuck open and the body needs changing. this would cause the rads to heat up when the hot water is on.

unless the bottom of your rads stay cold when the heating is turned on then i'd say a chemical cleaner in the system followed by draining down and filling with fresh water and treating with inhibitor should do the trick. however without seeing it for myself it would be difficult to diagnose exactly what is needed.

with regards to draining it, just sounds like the drain cock has the washer stuck inside it. A new drain cock will fix this.

 

[KellyP]

Thanks for reply, I think I might get on to insurance company again and say that I want the boiler looked at. Thinking about it he hasn't even looked at that to be fair.

Cheers

 

[KellyP]

sounds like the expansion vessel in the boiler has gone which would cause the pressure loss issues. did he change the whole 3 port valve or just the head? i would bet he's only changed the head when the problem is the valve is stuck open and the body needs changing. this would cause the rads to heat up when the hot water is on.

unless the bottom of your rads stay cold when the heating is turned on then i'd say a chemical cleaner in the system followed by draining down and filling with fresh water and treating with inhibitor should do the trick. however without seeing it for myself it would be difficult to diagnose exactly what is needed.

with regards to draining it, just sounds like the drain cock has the washer stuck inside it. A new drain cock will fix this.

Hi Again,

This fella says that he changed the motor, 'it 110% needs a Powerflush'.... In your opinion has the correct part been replaced? I'm having a nightmare now with the insurance trying to request another engineer to look at the pressure problem as the paper work says PW advised....

Cheers, Kelly

 

[justalex81]

if he only changed the motor then the body has not been changed and that is likely the cause behind the rads getting hot when only demanding hot water. Only half of the correct part has been fitted as the body needs replacing also. Also i can'tbelieve he didn't even check the pressure vessel/safety discharge valve when there are pressure issues as that's the first place i would look!!!!!

when your heating does work, do the rads get hot in a reasonable time and does the whole radiator get hot? is the bottom of the radiators cold when the top gets hot?

I'm not saying your system does or doesn't need a powerflush, but i would fix the other problems first and then go from there. I suspect that a lot of their insurance jobs require a powerflush as it's easy money and the insurance won't question it. If i were you i would get a 2nd opinion.

 

[cdodds2004]

does the boiler have a seperate exspansion vessell? as it sounds like u have a pressurised system, not a combi obv! first thing i would be doing is getting him to check the charge on the pressure vessell! but if your bleeding rads etc and have a leak u will lose pressure,

 

[justalex81]

the boiler does have an expansion vessel that is conveniently mounted behind everything at the back of the boiler. There is of course a possibility that it failed long ago and an expansion vessel has been fitted externally to the boiler.

 

[KellyP]

Well I'm also experiencing a problem with the boiler firing up when I want heating on, again this was fine back in Aug I can only say I've had trouble since last Thurs evening with this matter... The bolier will seem to fire up sometimes for it and not others but last week when I got the rads to work they heated all over. It's fine with the HW and fires up all the time for that...

I have contacted the insurance company and they eventually agreed to send a second engineer from another company after I argued I deserved a second opinion. I've now also got a drip from the drain off valve after the guy banged at it with a spanner yesterday, I've turned it as tight as it will go but it's still dripping.

I'll start wit telling this second person about the rads heating from the hot water and then go on to the other issues that have happened since... Keep your fingers crossed please :stooge_curly:

Cheers

 

[KellyP]

does the boiler have a seperate exspansion vessell? as it sounds like u have a pressurised system, not a combi obv! first thing i would be doing is getting him to check the charge on the pressure vessell! but if your bleeding rads etc and have a leak u will lose pressure,

The leaking rad has been replaced and Hubby bled rads on Sat which bought pressure ack down after it rose to 2.8...

 

[WHPES]

If you can locate the expansion vessel, with the pressure in the system off it should typically have an empty pressure of 1 bar (will give exact level on the sticker on the side) - You need a car tyre pressure gauge to check it. If it's too low then a car or bike pump is used to get it up to pressure. Washing up liquid solution over the valve will tell if its leaking (if the valve is leaking it just needs a trip to KwikFit / ATS for a replacement). If the valve is OK and the pressure goes down again then the vessel needs replacing.

 

[KellyP]

If you can locate the expansion vessel, with the pressure in the system off it should typically have an empty pressure of 1 bar (will give exact level on the sticker on the side) - You need a car tyre pressure gauge to check it. If it's too low then a car or bike pump is used to get it up to pressure. Washing up liquid solution over the valve will tell if its leaking (if the valve is leaking it just needs a trip to KwikFit / ATS for a replacement). If the valve is OK and the pressure goes down again then the vessel needs replacing.

Thank you for this info.... It's far too much detail for a girl to try and look at though whilst the husband is at work (and tbh he prob wouldn't be sure) :thinking: ... But it is appreciated!

What I'll do is tell the new plumber how the prob started and what was done, what was replaced and what went wrong after! I can't get the boiler to fire up now for HW this morning after putting pressure back in bolier
I'll go on to sound to him like I know what I'm talking about when I say the the whole valve may need replacing rather than the motor and ask him to check the expansion vessel in the boiler.... Lol.

Thanks again!

 

[KellyP]

Hi All,

Thought I would update you and thank you once again for arming me with knowledge :rofl:

Second engineer has been and after I described initial fault and told him the 1st guy replaced the motor he agreed that the valve had gone completely and that the whole part should have been replaced - he actually even questioned whether the first did replace the motor as my Dad had also suspected he hadn't...

I then told him about the flame not firing and the pressure problem and after he actually took the front of the boiler off and put his hand in the top part he confirmed that the vessel has indeed gone, it's full of water.

Of course as you guys will know the powerflush would not solve my problems and make my heating work, these parts must be replaced first. The second chap did say that doing this work will give a better idea whether one would be a needed as they will see if sludge is causing a blockage in the valve and is stuck to the vessel, he said that after these are replaced one then may be a good idea to prevent the same thing happening.

I'm so glad I pushed for a second opinion and that was after I posted on here, it was a great help! I can't believe that some guy thought it acceptable to leave me without heating for the last week when he knew I had a 7 week old baby and try to convince me to have a PF that he knew would not solve the matter (I trust he knew this...). Of course I have fed this back to energy provider who look after my insurance and hopefully they will see that these parts need replacing.

Cheers, Kelly

 

[justalex81]

glad you got it sorted!