Plumbing & heating industry is over filled with wannabees...

[xpertbert]

Sorry all, for the rant, but been in the plumbing and heating installation side for 23 years going through full aprentership on £29.50 a week.

Worked for a big company for 10 years mainly contract work doing e.g 5 heatings a week in a team. Done the rest site work, maintenance, bathrooms, solid fuel etc. Then self employed, doing sub-contracting and my own stuff. I believe we have been sold out with the amount of people that have come along sat a few courses over the years. Which in turn has made us all ten a penny .

They go in at stupid prices willing to work for nothing, which in turn has messed us all up. You only have to check local papers,advertising to install gas boilers for stupid prices , and knowing they must be cutting corners or willing to make pitance. All you get is driven down by customer ,because so called (jackass plumbing and heating e.g)will do it for less , which you sign your name to, guarantee and give on going customer service to. We are worth more than this. This is no different in contract work, company's have steadily shafted us. Our once upon a time plumbing and heating trade were you were respected for your talent is second penny. Gone are the days were you charged for your services and you were paid a decent wage. Like I said sorry for rant , just fed up with it all.

I'm a plumbing and heating engineer that believes we are worth more, for the trade we hold. I know we are in a recession etc, but I think you will get we're I'm coming from.

Oops forgot to say hello, I'm Neil anyway

 

[xpertbert]

Sorry if spelling is a mess,Just in a rush

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

welcome to the forums Neil,i totally agree with your post,the industry's over saturated

 

[xpertbert]

Thank you , for taking the time to read my post.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Sorry all, for the rant, but been in the plumbing and heating installation side for 23 years going through full aprentership on £29.50 a week.

Worked for a big company for 10 years mainly contract work doing e.g 5 heatings a week in a team. Done the rest site work, maintenance, bathrooms, solid fuel etc. Then self employed, doing sub-contracting and my own stuff. I believe we have been sold out with the amount of people that have come along sat a few courses over the years. Which in turn has made us all ten a penny .

They go in at stupid prices willing to work for nothing, which in turn has messed us all up. You only have to check local papers,advertising to install gas boilers for stupid prices , and knowing they must be cutting corners or willing to make pitance. All you get is driven down by customer ,because so called (jackass plumbing and heating e.g)will do it for less , which you sign your name to, guarantee and give on going customer service to. We are worth more than this. This is no different in contract work, company's have steadily shafted us. Our once upon a time plumbing and heating trade were you were respected for your talent is second penny. Gone are the days were you charged for your services and you were paid a decent wage. Like I said sorry for rant , just fed up with it all.

I'm a plumbing and heating engineer that believes we are worth more, for the trade we hold. I know we are in a recession etc, but I think you will get we're I'm coming from.

Oops forgot to say hello, I'm Neil anyway

Hi Neil

Welcome to the shape of things to come. Many of us old hands have had our heads down and arses up trying to earn a living, and have not considered or thought about what is going on in our industry, and how those who purport to represent us, have sold us out - allowing meaningless and invalide qualifications to act as 'entry to industry' instead of the traditional route of apprenticeship.

Those who sit at sector skills councils, pander to certification bodies, large companies and training providers, rather than tending to the needs of those the claim to support - small business.

Installers have only just started to realise this situation - However, government have been working to decrease working class wage inflation since the mid-90s - they have achieved this by removing the need for time-serving, apprenticeships and replacing them with dubious competencey qualifications. This has allowed the those wishing to enter, to bypass apprenticeships (argubably undermining their credibility) and set up in business as your competitor.

Unfortunately, there is no one to help - the organisations that represent us, are in on the marketisation of training products - its very big business, and the losers are those entering (massive debt, hassle and danger) and we who are being undercut.

 

[xpertbert]

I totally agree, i once loved my job, enjoyed putting in maximum effort to repe the rewards of being recognised for my good work and speed. Which in turn payed a decent wage. Job satisfaction is few and far between. It's all about lining big company's pockets from one end then mindless engineers that will work for nothing at the other. Whith the likes of us suffering . The way feel at the moment, I could pack up now. But what else do you do after 23 years.

 

[xpertbert]

The money we pay for continuos training is through the roof and does it provide more work, not really, why! Because any muppet can do it nowadays. Joke

 

[GQuigley67]

I'm sick of seeing ads about "become a plumber" and getting emails off these people aswell "become a plumber, electrician, gas engineer"

no thanks, I'm already one and I'm on 70k and not the 50k you say !!!#

aye right 70k in pennies !!!

seriously though i become a plumber because i left school with nowt and got a job with my uncle, not because i wanted to, but i would still rather be doing this than being an unemployed bum or working in lidl

I enjoy my job when I get good customers and good jobs, complete opposite when I've got a pain in the arse job with no profit and annoying customer

 

[secret squirrel]

I think, having read all these post so far, that there are a number of problems in the country and not just our industry. It is easy to look at our own industry and cast dispersions at it or those in it.

The public (us included) have lost something, the willingness to pay for goods or services. I can go and buy a top of the range tv for £500 and if I shop around I can buy this for less on the interenet. I can go into the shop with my internet price and say can you match this price, if they can all well and good, now I want free delivery and set up.

Every year I shop around for internet and telephone, I play one company off of the other until I get the best deal. I do the same with insurance and to be honest with everything I buy. Mobile phone contracts.

Why wouldn't a customer do that with us? yes, it is annoying and I get as frustrated as anyone to the point I could punch someone (usually my girl friend).

Then we have the internet, how to do this and that, do it yourself manuals, manufacturers guides on the web, forums, price comparison websites, 'how much to change a bathroom suite'' etc.

Then to top it all we're not trusted, blame cheap tv programmes for this one. And we're not liked, I'd rather spend my £500 on my new tv something that brings me pleasure watching my **** than changing a leaking rad, a pump and a 3 port valve.

As for time served Vs fast track, not going to go down this road been there too many times on this forum. I will say though, in the current climate, people gravitate to what they think they can do because everyone elses job is easy. Hang on in there watch them come and go and go most of them/us will.

A site plumber who specialises in new builds will be made redundant, set up on his/her own. Will have no contacts no idea of running a business or customer care and as soon as the market improves (and it will) they'll be off.

Its not just fast trackers causing the problem its the market.

My girlfriend whose involved in employing graduates in her bank has numerous cv's to look at, those with 'film studies' 'media studies' 'golf studies' do not even get a look in. So, the figures are skewed, 100,000 graduates chasing only 50,000 jobs, really! maybe 50,000 of these graduates should be flipping burgers.LOL My point is every industry is in disarray, doesn't help but were not the only ones.

 

[nickelarsed]

Afternoon all. I'm going to put in my tuppence, even though it might not be popular. You see I'm what you guys might call a fast tracker. I did my tech certs and gas training at college in 9 months. Then went out and got my NVQ's self employed. After that I needed to get gas hours so I searched all the local companies and traders offering to work for free in return for experience and hours. The negative and sometimes hostile response was pretty depressing to be honest. In the end I found someone. Luckily he has been going for years and is a good guy to learn from. I had to work for six months for FREE, and then he started paying me once I had proved myself. My point is this, people who genuinely want to get into the industry and do it properly have no chance. There are no apprenticeships, especially if you are not a school leaver. And anyone who has taken my route is somehow considered a spur wearer.
There are obviously massive problems in the industry, but it is not the fault of people like me. If people would offer better training schemes, or take on more apprentice's then I'm sure standards would rise again. The fact that most companies round here would not even take a look at me for free,and would not give me a chance, but are probably the same people who complain about falling standards really ****es me off.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Afternoon all. I'm going to put in my tuppence, even though it might not be popular. You see I'm what you guys might call a fast tracker. I did my tech certs and gas training at college in 9 months. Then went out and got my NVQ's self employed. After that I needed to get gas hours so I searched all the local companies and traders offering to work for free in return for experience and hours. The negative and sometimes hostile response was pretty depressing to be honest. In the end I found someone. Luckily he has been going for years and is a good guy to learn from. I had to work for six months for FREE, and then he started paying me once I had proved myself. My point is this, people who genuinely want to get into the industry and do it properly have no chance. There are no apprenticeships, especially if you are not a school leaver. And anyone who has taken my route is somehow considered a spur wearer.
There are obviously massive problems in the industry, but it is not the fault of people like me. If people would offer better training schemes, or take on more apprentice's then I'm sure standards would rise again. The fact that most companies round here would not even take a look at me for free,and would not give me a chance, but are probably the same people who complain about falling standards really ****es me off.

You make a fair point and I do not disagree with people carving out a living for themselves. I also think you are a 'victim' of our economy - no manufacturing jobs, which mean limited options in service industry for people. As for working for free, I can only commend your enthusiasm, and commitment. However, six months? this is slavery and whats more, you free labour means another downward step for your own future - because you were willing others will be willing - because you are successful others think they will be successful etc etc.

However, there is a reason for apprenticeship - its a sustainable way of organising labour - one in, one out. But when apprenticeship is bye-passed we have a surplus of labour, and this means more competition for jobs.

The very path you took to enter the industry, will be part of your own undoing - in that you are now exposed to this oversupply, that you helped to create.

As for falling standards, this is difficult to assess, without evidence of poor workmanship on a mass scale - the odd anecdote does not do for generalisations, so I can see why you are ****ed, when you are making the effort to be a quality installer.

I think you have a dynamic attitude and wish you luck!

 

[nickelarsed]

Yep I agree six months for free was rubbish. But what can you do? Say no I don't want the experience? Then sit on my bum? Now It's under my belt I have more options and can make a living. My point was really that there are no apprenticeships about unless your a school leaver. I would much rather have done one. As I couldn't I had to go another way. I've got to say as well though that I reckon it's easy not to realise that we are still in a great industry. From what people say, maybe it's not the same as it once was. But honestly for people of my age, well most of my mates live in call centre hell. It's really the only option. I actually feel lucky to do this work now, even after all the crap to get into it, I stull think it's a great job.

 

[smileyplumber]

It started off as a stealth tax under the guese of health & safety to be under a governing body it made it easyer for cowboys the become legitamate only to start ripping folk off even more because they had a certificate to say they were "compitent" then all the existing trade started thinking we deserve to charge more too . thats when the bankers and solicitors said im becoming a gas man then the bubble burst as the credit crunch was hitting hard .

I dont feel its because of folk like the guy above because he clearly wanted to get into the trade. But it's the fault of the "lets get ritch quick people" existing or new to the trade that has ruined everything in my view .
the public are not all stupid
they will eventualy change there habits after being ripped off for the last 10 - 15 years
now they are all going to the likes of insurance backed policys like Brit gas home care , its bound to happen
I like most folk on here is fed up with clearing up the mess that others leave and taking crumbs for it but it,s the path CORGI and Gas Safe has lead us down .

 

[Phil B]

I agree with some of what's been said here but do feel that maybe there are many more factors to take into consideration.

Fast trackers: there are good and bad in all trades, some fast tracked plumbers are good, others are a liability just like regular old school plumbers.

I started with a weekend job when I was 15 doing the things no plumber had time to do.. Cutting the Kingspan lagging, lagging pipes etc etc.. It was my foot on the ladder as I wanted to get into a trade ready for leaving school. Then onto CITB and YTS for the old 25 quid a week and more abuse than I could manage. Stuck at that for a while then scored a job on a commercial servicing company..I think I have been through just about every aspect of HVAC since then. From gas fired over sink water heaters to boilers you can walk inside...

I now work for a Major company on blue chip contracts and have gained a fair amount of experience and qualifications along the way.

We had a fast tracked gas fitter working for us, I stress "had" in fact he was at a company I used to work for until he was forced to leave due to a dangerous situation he left on a job. This time his lack of ability left him with a gas leak on a brand new boiler install in a residential home. I went and repaired it yesterday.. Needless to say he was requested to leave the job or be sacked, personally i would have reported him as sooner or later he will make a fatal mistake and then it is too late. I understand not all fast tracked plumbers etc are bad but as we all know bad word travels faster than good.

Under cutting on prices, do we ultimately have ourselves to blame? Not people here but trades as a whole. I think it went for years where the customer basically had no idea of what was involved, how much things cost etc, we maybe made our money then but then with the onset of the Internet it is so much easier for people to google something and be inundated with a wealth of knowledge accurate or not. TV shows who claim to shock and expose dodgy tradesman which sets our customers on edge before we have even started.. They never make a " customers from hell" programme showing those people who take months to pay you if you're lucky...

Education system, kids want to get rich quick so in turn over the years getting your hands dirty for a living doesn't appeal to them, they want to sit at a computer all day and earns vast amounts of cash for nothing..as has been said.... Media studies, business studies.. I know a lad who spent 5 years at uni studying graphic design, his parents forked out £1000's on computers for him to do it... He now works in Asda.. Result...

So we have less people wanting to learn trades so companies drag people over from Eastern Europe etc and we spire out of control undercutting at every turn..

Biggest question is, is there any way back from this or is it too late?