Hey guys, recently had a bit of a dispute over a quote asking me to break it down etc saying they can buy this from X for Y.. how much is labour/materials.. shockingly it was from friends so it's taken its toll on me mentally if I'm honest.. I'm don't think I'm outrageously pricey but I do a good job and people know that. The job I quoted for is part of a much bigger job that I'm now feeling guilty over making any profit on other than wages whilst drawing up the interim invoice, I asked what the budget was pre starting and they said there isn't, that doesn't mean I've thrown my usual calculation methods out but I've not gone speedfit bonanza either.. I know the general way to work out an hourly rate but that depends on the van you drive etc too, I'm talking for larger jobs too, like this job is 2 bathroom Reno's (1st and 2nd fix, one was a bedroom being converted into a shower room) I've done the stud work for it too, a kitchen 1st and second fix, vented to unvented convert.. rad removals, plus a load of other carpentry related bits.. I'm at a loss as to what's an acceptable day rate, acceptable hourly and acceptable profit margin on larger work plus markup %s, Atm I day rate look for £250 if possible, smaller jobs 60£ first hour then 30£, anything over 5 hours I consider a day really.. markup flat 20% and then say for this job I would do a day rate for the amount of days I think it'll take then add on 20% on labour for the inevitable balls ups which serves as my "profit" if I hit my guesstimated daily allowance. 20% markup materials, I still feel like this only buys me a day or 2 tbh and considering the risk it's quite demotivating. Any advice appreciated, I know this is a hard sum to quantify but just looking for a guideline I can stick to, am I am on the money or am I expensive? I'm based in south east. Cheers
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Discuss Pricing + acceptable rates and mark up in the UK Plumbers Forums area at Plumbers Forums
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For the works stated, quote them as you would another customer.
I've lost friends over quoting to do works for them.
For some reason, major works for friends need to be done at a much lower rate than you would quote anyone else.
Ask yourself, what can I get in return from them to substantiate a lower price.
Your prices seem reasonable - so stick to your guns.
I've lost friends over quoting to do works for them.
For some reason, major works for friends need to be done at a much lower rate than you would quote anyone else.
Ask yourself, what can I get in return from them to substantiate a lower price.
Your prices seem reasonable - so stick to your guns.
Yeah, sounds reasonable. I'd say the 20% is the cost to fix the price for the inevitable unexpected eventuality, as you rightly say.
Depends on the friend. A small job I might do in exhange for a dinner for a good friend if they are hard up. But if they want a new bathroom, then it's not a hardship case (I don't get the perceived need for a brand new bathroom, especially when people are having to use foodbanks, though I did repaint mine recently) and they should be prepared to pay for it.
By giving you the contract they will get a textbook job with you going the extra mile and looking after them afterwards because that's what you should be doing for a friend and they should be providing tea and biscuits as a minimum. You certainly shouldn't be stressing in justfying the cost it as they should trust you implicitely and if they want a shoddy job done cheap then they can go elsewhere. Lose the money, lose the friend, but for heaven's sake don't lose both!
The justification for the price for an established business is, by the way, that that is what, from experience, it costs to keep the business running.
Depends on the friend. A small job I might do in exhange for a dinner for a good friend if they are hard up. But if they want a new bathroom, then it's not a hardship case (I don't get the perceived need for a brand new bathroom, especially when people are having to use foodbanks, though I did repaint mine recently) and they should be prepared to pay for it.
By giving you the contract they will get a textbook job with you going the extra mile and looking after them afterwards because that's what you should be doing for a friend and they should be providing tea and biscuits as a minimum. You certainly shouldn't be stressing in justfying the cost it as they should trust you implicitely and if they want a shoddy job done cheap then they can go elsewhere. Lose the money, lose the friend, but for heaven's sake don't lose both!
The justification for the price for an established business is, by the way, that that is what, from experience, it costs to keep the business running.
Your quote is your quote, how you arrive at the final figure is your business not theirs. It should be one of three that your 'friend' has got. If your friend doesn't like yours they need to get one of the others to do the work.
My advice is never to undertake paid work for friends, it rarely ends well. One party always seems to feel exploited/coerced by the other.
My advice is never to undertake paid work for friends, it rarely ends well. One party always seems to feel exploited/coerced by the other.
I'm not expensive, in fairness, but my friends have mostly taken the attitude that I wasn't going to rip them off and trusted me implicitely. But then I mean 'friends' and I'm quite choosy who I apply that label to.
It's funny. I did some work for my mother once on her let property and she complained about the price and how little time it took me (the only person who has moaned). I explained what had been involved behind the scenes and then she offered me extra. Lol. Then she noticed what the other workmen the letting agent sent charged (and how much better my work was, even when I was doing non-plumbing work). Now she just asks me if I'll do the work and to let her know what it costs because she knows if I take a job on, it's done properly and whatever needed doing is permanently resolved.
I had a plasterer friend tell me years ago that when you work for friends no-one is happy.
They think they're doing you a favour and you think your doing them a favour. His advice was 'don't do it'.
That being said you still do, infact I'm doing my partners sisters bathroom this week (I don't even do bathrooms)😫.
It's good to remind them that if you weren't doing their job then you'd be on another and if you don't charge properly then their job will actually be costing YOU money!
They think they're doing you a favour and you think your doing them a favour. His advice was 'don't do it'.
That being said you still do, infact I'm doing my partners sisters bathroom this week (I don't even do bathrooms)😫.
It's good to remind them that if you weren't doing their job then you'd be on another and if you don't charge properly then their job will actually be costing YOU money!
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Working for family and friends can be a challenge and you feel a sense of duty to do it cheaper, but as said above if you wasn't working for them then you would be working elsewhere and getting your rate so this needs to be passed on, I was once told I was reassuringly expensive 😅 they know jobs get done properly the prep work which is of the utmost importance is carried out, jobs take that bit longer so the costs adds up , I never give quotes anymore I'll give a estimate and always allow a couple of days more because things do go wrong breakages, missing items, 20 % on your material cost is the norm I'd say 30% on smaller less expensive items I'd say your more than fair where you are price wise, it's the times we are living in bud everyone is struggling to make ends meet in the middle classes , and wealthy clients never want to pay full price for anything 😉👍 Kop
Sooo true!
It's amazing the resistance I get from wealthy clients.
The latest was a customer who was straight up outraged by a £500 quote to repair their fire.
It's not so surprising to me that parts for a fire that cost £5000 10 years ago are going to be expensive but they would happily squeeze me out of any profit to save £50.
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Sounds reasonable (maybe a bit cheap). I wouldn't change it if I were you, unless it's going upward.
I don't do mates rates or relatives either. I make that crystal clear and as a result I don't get work from them. Which suits me fine. It's a business, hard work, cold, dirty and dangerous a lot of the time. Not to mention expensive to kit out and run.
Ask yourself this:
Would they come round and sort your garden out for you or decorate your house, you know as a 'mate'? I doubt it.
Don't lose any sleep. Only work for those who appreciate your skill, knowledge and experience.
I don't do mates rates or relatives either. I make that crystal clear and as a result I don't get work from them. Which suits me fine. It's a business, hard work, cold, dirty and dangerous a lot of the time. Not to mention expensive to kit out and run.
Ask yourself this:
Would they come round and sort your garden out for you or decorate your house, you know as a 'mate'? I doubt it.
Don't lose any sleep. Only work for those who appreciate your skill, knowledge and experience.
Inlaws are moving into a new house that will require a new bathroom. They were taken aback when I said I wouldn’t do it (140 miles from me by the way) - mind you I have insider knowledge that they will be a pain in the whatsit!
Nothing wrong with your prices, cheaper than me.
I only work for a select few friends and they’ve never questioned the cost. The work is top quality and the cost is the cost.
I’ve told them, if you’re not happy with the quality, I’ll fix it (Has never come in to question).
If you’re not prepared to pay the cost, I won’t work for you as I’ll earn the money somewhere else and not have to risk losing them as a friend.
It all depends on the relationship. I did a whole house refurb (mains/all supplies/rads/underfloor/3 bathrooms), friend didn’t even want a quote, told me to do it and tell him how much I wanted when completed. Saying that, he works in construction so understand the cost of works.
I only work for a select few friends and they’ve never questioned the cost. The work is top quality and the cost is the cost.
I’ve told them, if you’re not happy with the quality, I’ll fix it (Has never come in to question).
If you’re not prepared to pay the cost, I won’t work for you as I’ll earn the money somewhere else and not have to risk losing them as a friend.
It all depends on the relationship. I did a whole house refurb (mains/all supplies/rads/underfloor/3 bathrooms), friend didn’t even want a quote, told me to do it and tell him how much I wanted when completed. Saying that, he works in construction so understand the cost of works.
A few years ago, I estimated a job for a friend at 2 days plus cost of materials. And did she want a quote?
She said it's fine as long as it doesn't come to more than £500 as that was what she could afford.
As I finished and she handed me a plate of food for the second day running, she asked what she owned me. I said I was about to work it out and to give me a minute (think the total would have been around £400). She said she'd seen me working hard and later than expected and thanked me for working around her clutter. She handed me a brown envelope and said to keep the contents but let her know if it came to any more...
... inside was £500. "Mates rates" works both ways!
She said it's fine as long as it doesn't come to more than £500 as that was what she could afford.
As I finished and she handed me a plate of food for the second day running, she asked what she owned me. I said I was about to work it out and to give me a minute (think the total would have been around £400). She said she'd seen me working hard and later than expected and thanked me for working around her clutter. She handed me a brown envelope and said to keep the contents but let her know if it came to any more...
... inside was £500. "Mates rates" works both ways!
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unless the people (friends) know what self employment means then they don't have a clue what your actual working/running costs are. And to be fair when i was employed I didn't understand either. However when i did start a self employed business (not plumbing but PC servicing/repair) as a naive young man i suddenly had all of these costs!!!
To make it worse I was quoting as if I was the client.. Totally wrong thinking till someone older told me I was quoting as an amateur. I was not making much money to live on at all. Your tools never last forever and the van doesn't get fixed for nothing.
When client say they can get a part from Aldi/Lidl for x amount I start looking elsewhere. If the part from Aldi goes wrong they can get there money back (great) but it won't be for sale again probably till next year!
It makes me laugh inside now but working for friends in the past was not usually a good idea (you always gave free advice and tips on getting their computers working)... However some wanted to pay 'before' the job was done and other kept you waiting for payment because they had an unexpected bill come in..; like you don't have bills either?
Stick to your quote or ask them to get another quote.. see how that goes .... LOL
To make it worse I was quoting as if I was the client.. Totally wrong thinking till someone older told me I was quoting as an amateur. I was not making much money to live on at all. Your tools never last forever and the van doesn't get fixed for nothing.
When client say they can get a part from Aldi/Lidl for x amount I start looking elsewhere. If the part from Aldi goes wrong they can get there money back (great) but it won't be for sale again probably till next year!
It makes me laugh inside now but working for friends in the past was not usually a good idea (you always gave free advice and tips on getting their computers working)... However some wanted to pay 'before' the job was done and other kept you waiting for payment because they had an unexpected bill come in..; like you don't have bills either?
Stick to your quote or ask them to get another quote.. see how that goes .... LOL
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