Problems with new boiler

[Klactol]

Hi all, hope you can help a damsel in distress!!

I had a new boiler fitted in December - a Baxi Duo-Tec Combi HE A range. The central heating system is fine, but every time I run hot water or the shower, the boiler makes a loud vibrating/banging noise. My fitter has been out several times, and he says the problem is due to the gas supply to my house being too low. Transco have been out and agree that it is a low supply area - I'm getting around 18mbar at the meter - and as I understand it, this means I only get 16/17 at the boiler. I have noticed that the installation booklet says that " the preferred minimum gas pressure is 20mbar". However Transco brushed me off, saying although it's low, it's acceptable.

So my question is - how do I resolve this? Do I have any way of insisting Transco increase my supply? Or is the fitter at fault for fitting a boiler that needs 20mbar without checking the gas supply to my property first? I seem to be being passed from one to the other, without anyone actually taking responsibility for the problem.

Finally - is this damaging my boiler every time I run water or have a shower?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

 

[Puddle]

The pressure is indeed acceptable and Transco are fulfilling there obligations,the boiler manufacturers are causing this problem by using the wrong figures to try to make better performance figures and claim greater outputs available and most of the time they get away with it,however if you are in a known low supply area ,this boiler should not of been fitted,once checks had been done

imho

 

[Klactol]

Thanks for your reply. I asked my fitter if he should have done any checks prior to fitting the boiler and he said that wasn't possible - he said whatever reading I got at my meter (outside the front of my property) wouldn't have told him what reading the boiler would get - he could only tell that once the boiler was hung and was up and running? The hot water and shower are both working fine, it's just the noise. It's something I have to sort out, but in the meantime, am I causing any damage to the boiler by using it?

 

[plumber0808]

it will be covered by baxi, so why dont you give them a call.
i would tell them its banging as you said, but i wouldnt tell them transco or the installer have been out. they will send a engineer to have a look, if you tell them transco and the installer have been out they might try to fob you off.
might not be due to gas pressure

 

[Klactol]

Thanks for your reply. Baxi have already been out, but it was my fitter who contacted them, so he was at my house when the Baxi engineer came. They discussed it and seemed to come to the same conclusion, that it was due to low gas supply. It was the Baxi engineer who said that Transco guarantee 20 mbar, plus or minus 1, and to contact them.

I just feel like I'm being given the runaround and I don't know who to believe or blame!

I'm just worried I'm damaging the boiler in the meantime? Can anyone tell me if I am?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

sadly your boiler has a pre mix burner,so the duotec must have a minimum of 19mb to prevent this fault occurring,yor installer may not have known this as depleted pressure is not that common,if he did a better choice would have been a baxi 105 band b which does not suffer from this fault sadly theres nothing you can do about it

 

[Klactol]

Gasman, thank you for your reply. So my fitter shouldn't have thought to check pressure in my area before fitting my boiler? He's a lovely guy and I'm not out to cause trouble, but as a single parent who has saved for 2 years for this boiler, I feel quite upset about it!!!

I'm sorry to harp on, but will it be causing any damage to the boiler?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

your gas engineer did nothing wrong,he would have assumed your gas pressure would be 20 mb at the meter,long term it should not cause any harm just cause the boiler to whine in dhw mode,if your boilers brand new and this is a slim chance plead your case to BAXI see if they could swap it for a 105 he if not get it from them in writing it wont have a detrimental effect on your duotec btw both the duotec and 105 he are very reliable boilers IMHO the best you can buy

 

[Puddle]

''It was the Baxi engineer who said that Transco guarantee 20 mbar, plus or minus 1, and to contact them.''

This is not true,as said boiler manufacturers working on wrong figures

The gas pressures should and could of been checked,if I had fitted the boiler,I would replace


imho

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

''It was the Baxi engineer who said that Transco guarantee 20 mbar, plus or minus 1, and to contact them.''

This is not true,as said boiler manufacturers working on wrong figures

The gas pressures should and could of been checked,if I had fitted the boiler,I would replace


imho

difficult to check if the old boiler had died though,i have had this issue in depleted pressure areas 23 at the meter in the day,drops to 18 in the evening/night/sunday

 

[Puddle]

difficult to check if the old boiler had died though,i have had this issue in depleted pressure areas 23 at the meter in the day,drops to 18 in the evening/night/sunday

fair enough but as said , some manufacturers are leaving us plumbers open to get caught out as has happened here ,we should be aware of it,it has happened in a known, low pressure area as well
9 times out of 10 you get away with it,this is what the manufacturers hide behind,however if you get caught out ,it is down to the plumber to correct unfortunately as manufacturers state 20m/b or what ever is required in there mi
As said the customer has saved long and hard for a new boiler and it should be left working correctly,if that can not happen with the one fitted,fit a boiler that does,
Working this boiler on low pressure does it no good and could become ar,what would you do if you carried out a gsr on it
As said,if I had made the mistake of fitting this boiler in this situation,I may shed a tear but I would replace ,as I would expect someone to do if it had happened to me in my house

imho

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU PUDDLE BAXI SHOULD CHANGE THE DUOTEC FOR A 105 HE AS A GOOD WILL GESTURE,come on baxi prove you care about your installers and customers,the biggest problem here is (as puddle rightly says) the boiler duotec pre mix burner cant handle low pressure 105 he can runs at max 12.2 mb,its still under pressured but the 105 he being a normal upward firing boiler low wp wont have any effect on it,where as a center firing pre mix duotec whines its head off because the air/gas mix is wrong,and now i think more about your situation the boiler will not bein its co2 reading it must be out so technically its ar,as i said i have had the same situation but it was with a baxi 105 he so not really a issue but it was the only appliance you will have other more dangerous issues if you have a gas cooker as well

 

[Bartdude]

Vaillant Eco-tec will accept 16mbar on the 824 and 831. 15mbar on the 837.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Vaillant Eco-tec will accept 16mbar on the 824 and 831. 15mbar on the 837.

yes but that wont stop it catching on fire LOL

 

[Blackcatgas]

yes but that wont stop it catching on fire LOL

Youve seen this months install mag then, lol

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Youve seen this months install mag then, lol

oh yes and come across it nasty things those rubber gaskets

 

[Klactol]

Thank you all for your replies, this is a great forum! Everything you have all said makes sense, I'm just not sure where to go next.

I'm going to contact my fitter again to let him know I'm still having the same problems.

(I forgot to mention, he has also replaced a section of 15 ml pipework with 22 ml, but this hasn't really helped).

Perhaps it's worth a letter to Baxi to tug on their heart strings!

I have an electric oven and a gas hob incidentally.

Thanks again for all your help, much appreciated, feel free to come up with further suggestions.

 

[Klactol]

Sorry a quick question - what does ar mean?

My old boiler hadn't died - it was just old - at least 18 years old (Ravenheat) - and the pilot light went out after running the shower. But I'm beginning to wish I'd stuck with it!

 

[Blackcatgas]

Sorry a quick question - what does ar mean?

My old boiler hadn't died - it was just old - at least 18 years old (Ravenheat) - and the pilot light went out after running the shower. But I'm beginning to wish I'd stuck with it!

In Laymans terms they are clasifications of problems, NCS not to current standards, it might have been ok to install it that way 20yrs ago but it doesnt confirm to todays regs, AR at risk, there is the potencial risk (my words not the official take), or ID, imediately dangerous, the apliance etc poses an i mediate threat to life or building ,ie you have a gas pipe that is spilling gas into your kitchen.