pumped shower

[welly2510]

hi, iv been asked to fit a pumped shower but would like a bit of info as i have not fitted many. The CWSC is directly above the cylinder in the airing cuboard and is 25gallon , the bathroom is just across the hall from the airing cuboard, they have had another plumber look at the job and he was going to connect the pump up in the airing cuboard then take pipes to shower up into loft and down into bathroom which would take the pipes higher than the CWSC. You may be able to do that im not sure but i would move CWSC into loft so its higher than the shower pipes, i would also put in a bigger CWSC as i think 25 gallon is to small,they are looking at a 1.5bar pump, there is 4 people living in the house. The customer obviously wants it done right but doest want to pay over the odds, which would be the best way of doing it. Any help appreciated.

 

[GQuigley67]

25 gallons is approx 114 Litres which should be plenty I would think, when the water level goes down in the cistern it is topped back up by mains pressure anyway. If the pipes going up into the loft are after the shower pump then it should be fine any air pockets that gather in the pipe the pump will clear that no problem.Is there any way you can run pipes below floorboards and into the bathroom? I can't see any need to move CWSC or increase its size, making a job more complicated than it should be and more expensive for the customer, that's my opinion anyway, someone else may say otherwise.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

You will need to move the CWST if the shower is on the same floor as you will need a minimum of 1 meter from the tank to the shower head to activate the flow switches in the pump

 

[welly2510]

thanks for replies, i think i will go with moving the tank. Did a bit of research into shower pumps and it would seem i would need to fit a negative head pump if i leave CWSC in airing cubaord as shower head will be same hight as cistern, and they seem to be around 3x the price as a positive pump so it would make sense to move the cistern into loft and improve hot water flow as well.

 

[GQuigley67]

aw well you learn something new everyday, I've never fitted one myself I thought it would of been fine as the pipework after the pump would of been pressurised.

 

[tamz]

You can get a negative head pull switch for around £20.

 

[BLOD]

Something like the aqualisa visage might do you.
You might have to increase the tank size to get the 5 year guarantee though.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

makes sense to move the tank into the loft anyway as will help with all other hot woater outlets anyway

If your unsure no reason why you cant fit a bigger tank in the loft and throw the old out

 

[jayluvit]

I bought a Salamander CT 50 pump for my shower and it was recommended that I increase the tank size to 50 gallon which I did.
Is the pump a hot and cold water pump? If so make sure cold water pipe to it has its own feed from the tank and that pipe is also on the opposite side of the CWST from the infill. This to reduce the air getting into the pump.
You will probably need a Surrey flange (refer to the pump manual) which fits into the top of the hot water cylinder which is also to reduce air getting into the pump and gives it a seperate feed so you dont branch off of the same hot water pipe that feeds the hot taps.
My cold water pipe comes down from the loft to the pump, hot water from the cylinder then back up in the loft to the shower head. I can operate mine with or without the pump due the CWST being in the loft but obviously the pressure is not so good without the pump on.
My pump is only 1.5 bar but I think its great but do be aware though that the hotwater will run out quicker if your like me and stay under the shower forever!!!!
I will try and add some photos.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

great post but preference would be with an essex flange

air is the biggest killer of pumps and incorrect fitting will invalidate a warranty

 

[welly2510]

thanks for all replys, the customer is going to go with moving the tank into loft as it will help the hot water as its quite poor at the min, also they would like more space in the airing cuboard and they will be able to get into loft for storage once the hatch is made bigger. iv fitted a few pumped showers before but they have had there cistern in the loft, was just unsure about fitting it with the cistern on same level as shower.

 

[welly2510]

i also have to remove and refit a new soil stack for the same customer, but its asbestos. i worked as a plumber for the local council and we were trained up in asbestos like identifying it and removing it safely and double bagging it, i know you have to be licienced to remove it from the property but unsure about actually taking it down, if i can that will be great. it will come down in sections so will not be broken up or cut, iv got some suits and a specialist mask just dont want to take it down and land my self in deep water.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

probably good idea to have a word with local council or environmental health

 

[hihowudoin]

hi, iv been asked to fit a pumped shower but would like a bit of info as i have not fitted many. The CWSC is directly above the cylinder in the airing cuboard and is 25gallon , the bathroom is just across the hall from the airing cuboard, they have had another plumber look at the job and he was going to connect the pump up in the airing cuboard then take pipes to shower up into loft and down into bathroom which would take the pipes higher than the CWSC. You may be able to do that im not sure but i would move CWSC into loft so its higher than the shower pipes, i would also put in a bigger CWSC as i think 25 gallon is to small,they are looking at a 1.5bar pump, there is 4 people living in the house. The customer obviously wants it done right but doest want to pay over the odds, which would be the best way of doing it. Any help appreciated.

imho i think what you suggest about increasing tank size to 50 gallon would be the correct way as the shower pump will supply 10-15 litres per min, so the existing tank(114 litres) could be sucked dry within 7-11 minutes so makes sense if you are moving it is to upgrade it.

 

[gassafe]

Fit an unvented cylinder and improve the h/w flow throughout if the mains is up to the job that is... No shower pump needed, no pipes in roofspace, a better job all round!

 

[welly2510]

yes im definitely upgrading to a 50 gallon as i had worked out the how much it would supply, the pump is a grundfos 1.5bar and it pumps between 5 and 20 litres per min, was not sure how much it would actually delivery when fitted to the shower as the shower didnt give any indication as to how much it would allow through, plus its a family of four and if ones in the shower, some ones running hot water off and washing machine on it would soon disappear.

 

[welly2510]

im not qualified in unvented so im unable to do that.

 

[CHRISMUR]

"Hello" - Regarding the pumped Shower - it is not unusual for pumped showers to use approx. 10 Litres [Or More] per MINUTE of HOT WATER - So an `Average` Small Domestic Hot Water Cylinder would almost empty of Hot Water in 10 Minutes.

Make sure that IF the Cylinder is a [approx.] 120 Litre - that the Clients do not expect to use more than either ONE 10 Minute Shower - OR TWO 5 Minute [Max.] Showers.

The common error that is made when a Client wants a `Power Shower` is that the Water Usage Calculation is NOT done - and the Client expects to be able to have the Family use TWO OR THREE `Power Showers` - From personal experience I know that an 8 - 10 Minute Shower is NOT Unusual.

I hope that you are not `insulted by this Post - `Just in case` no-one has thought of the Hot Water Usage - ??

You have mentioned `Upgrading` the Tank Size to 50 Gallon - this is a `Must` - although not as much Cold Water is used in Showering as Hot - Obviously ALL of the Pumped Water is coming from the Cold Water Storage Tank.

"Regards",


CHRISMUR.