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Discuss Question about need for new connection when replacing a house in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at Plumbers Forums

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J

jacksonblackson

Evening all

As mentioned in my intro thread, my wife and I are about to build a new house. We're replacing a very small 2 bed 1950s bungalow with a 4 bed house. To give you some context, the bungalow is set behind the other houses on our road, at the end of a 45m driveway. There's a stopcock (but no meter) just inside the boundary. The mains is across the road from the driveway.

We haven't gone for planning yet but we're far enough along the process that we're starting to talk to utilities about connections. One thing we thought we'd at least look into is taking the opportunity to replace as much of the old pipework and cables as makes financial sense. Seems a reasonable time to do it, given we're going to be making a massive mess of the place anyway!

We spoke to South East Water and had to pay £116 for a survey and cost estimate. They've now come back with an eye-watering £2047.26 estimate for a new connection with stopcock and meter. They've told my wife on the phone that we can use the existing connection as the basis for the temporary building supply, but that we need to install a new connection right back to the mains when it comes to connecting the new house. This is apparently because of potential "contamination" of the water by the building supply.

I might be (ok, am) completely ignorant about all this, but that doesn't sound right. South East Water themselves will set up a new building supply connection that can subsequently be used as a permanent supply. So what could they be talking about?

I feel as though they're taking the opportunity to have us pay for the cost of a meter and a new connection back to the mains that they won't have to touch for a decade or more - and yet that side of the pipework is meant to be their responsibility.

The main question I have, then, is whether there's any way I can avoid the need to pay full whack for the new connection.

If we're stuck having to make this connection, is it possible to reduce the costs in any way? I notice there are 'A' and 'B' type connections. The former seems to be for developers who will take responsibility for the digging up and making good - is there any point at all in a private individual attempting to take this course? (We'd use professional contractors with the relevant skills and ticket(s), of course).

One thought I had was to request a meter now as a separate action. I understand they need to supply that unless there's a good practical reason stopping them. That might at least reduce the cost of what needs to be done later (ie, they'll bear the cost of that now, so we won't have to later).

Also, the estimate they gave us is just a single lump sum, including infrastructure charge. Do we have a right to see a breakdown of the charges?

Thanks in advance for any advice you might be able to offer.

cheers
Jack
 
Unfortunatly that is the standard cost or a we dwelling. They will have a days work! Most o the quote is infrastructure, but as your not adding to the grid, its annoying.
you will have to supply and lay the 25/32mm main yourself, they will only do the connection outside your boundary.
is it possible to lay a new water ,sin to the position of the existing stop tp outside your boundary? And just connect to that. Don't bother with the meter?

other than that just bite the bullet!
 
All that for little over 2K for a suitable size new metres water supply, what are you going to be like when it comes to quotes for the plumbing in your new house ?

Welcome to the wonderful world of privatised water companies, no subsides anymore, you pay for what it cost them to open up the road & make a new connection + turn a profit.
 
I don't quite understand what the water undertaker is getting at. Are they saying the existing supply is likely to be a risk of contamination? if so if it is on their side its their problem and it needs to be addressed now. I do not see why you can not come off the existing with a new 25 or 32 MDPE and ask them to fit a meter, normally for about £100 or there about. Its worth asking the question.
 
Southeast water? OH you're in for a few joys.
i've just back from a house where they have managed to blooming cut off in the road somehow!
had half a dozen numptys with their hand in their pockets blaming everyone else.

Luckily their lovely neighbor let us put a temporery connection between the houses.

i don't suppose you're in kent?
i'd always be willing to give a quote, trench and all.

having a meter and 32mm MDPE connection at your boundry and having another contractor lay the pipe in would more than likely be more cost effective!
 
Unfortunatly that is the standard cost or a we dwelling. They will have a days work! Most o the quote is infrastructure, but as your not adding to the grid, its annoying.
you will have to supply and lay the 25/32mm main yourself, they will only do the connection outside your boundary.

The new house will be quite a bit bigger than the old, so I don’t mind having to pay the infrastructure side of things (well, within reason!) We know we’ll have to lay the new pipework (blue MDPE) on our side.

is it possible to lay a new water ,sin to the position of the existing stop tp outside your boundary? And just connect to that. Don't bother with the meter?

I believe that knocking down a house and installing a building supply off the old pipework is notifiable. I think we’re also required to have a meter installed when setting up the building supply.

I have no idea what would happen if we just did it without notifying, but to be honest I’d rather keep things above board. I don’t mind working the rules to our advantage, but would prefer not to actual break any of them :angelsad2:

All that for little over 2K for a suitable size new metres water supply, what are you going to be like when it comes to quotes for the plumbing in your new house ?

I hope I'll be perfectly reasonable. We clearly need the house to be plumbed, and for that I’m happy to pay a decent price for a properly done job. I don’t think this is the same situation, because I’m not yet convinced that what we’re being asked to pay for is actually required. I could well be wrong - that's what I'm trying to find out!

Welcome to the wonderful world of privatised water companies, no subsides anymore, you pay for what it cost them to open up the road & make a new connection + turn a profit.

I'm not questioning the cost of making a new connection, nor their right to make a profit on work they do. I've no doubt that it's a serious job to dig up a road and a path, lay pipework and connect it up at both ends.

What I'm questioning is why they need to "open up the road & make a new connection" when there's a perfectly good connection already there. If there's something wrong with the existing connection on their side, then it’s their statutory responsibility to fix it. If there’s nothing wrong with it, why are they requiring me to dig up a road and replace it?

My current theory is that they just have a policy of taking the opportunity to freshen up their side of the connection at the developer's cost (because everyone who builds a house is a developer in their eyes) whenever a house is replaced. I suspect they won’t admit that though.

I don't quite understand what the water undertaker is getting at. Are they saying the existing supply is likely to be a risk of contamination? if so if it is on their side its their problem and it needs to be addressed now. I do not see why you can not come off the existing with a new 25 or 32 MDPE and ask them to fit a meter, normally for about £100 or there about. Its worth asking the question.

Exactly my question. My wife spoke to them yesterday and couldn’t get any sense from them. I’m going to call them later this afternoon myself and see if I can do any better.

Southeast water? OH you're in for a few joys.

So I keep hearing. :-/

i don't suppose you're in kent?
i'd always be willing to give a quote, trench and all.

Would be happy to take a quote, but we’re quite a way from you (Hampshire/Surrey borders).

If I can get any more info from SEW I’ll feed it back, but if anyone else has any ideas about why SEW might demand a new connection (or how I can argue against it), I’d be pleased to hear them.

Many thanks for the comments.

Jack
 
The old service is probably iron onto a saddle on to some other rubbish

New one will be straight off main. Get a minimum 32mm service.
 
ask them to put you on a meter before you do anything else, then you can get your building supply off that and then link back to the new house. think out of the box peeps
 
Like Billy King we are also in Kent and from experience we know that it depends which department you speak to. It may well be that you don't need a new connection on their side. But if you are put through to the department that does that, that is all they do and it is what they quote for. If you just need a new connection at the boundary it is a totally different department. And the two departments don't know anything about each other!

If you already know what plumber you are going to have doing the work you would do better handing the problem over to him as he will know who to call and will speak their language.

If you need a quote for the plumbing let us know on this site.
 
The old service is probably iron onto a saddle on to some other rubbish

New one will be straight off main. Get a minimum 32mm service.

Their initial response said they only do 25mm for domestic installations in the absence of a good reason for 32mm. We have a very long driveway, so will be installing 32mm there either way. If we have to replace the mains across the road too, I'll be pushing for 32mm.

ask them to put you on a meter before you do anything else, then you can get your building supply off that and then link back to the new house.

Yes, that's what we're thinking of doing at the moment.

Like Billy King we are also in Kent and from experience we know that it depends which department you speak to. It may well be that you don't need a new connection on their side. But if you are put through to the department that does that, that is all they do and it is what they quote for. If you just need a new connection at the boundary it is a totally different department. And the two departments don't know anything about each other!

That sounds about right from what I've heard so far about SEW.

If you already know what plumber you are going to have doing the work you would do better handing the problem over to him as he will know who to call and will speak their language.

I have some recommendations for local plumbers and we'll be contacting them shortly. I guess someone local should be used to dealing with SEW.

Thanks again for all the input.

Jack
 
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