Quooker water hammer

[Jones82]

Greetings and Merry Xmas to all

Just been to an interesting callout.

Quooker fusion pro3 tap recently fitted in a new kitchen on a small 2 bed mid terrace with a Ideal logic 30 combi.

Customer getting the most horrendous water hammer, started the day after the "plumbers" left for xmas.

After running hot water through the tap from the combi an incredible pulsing grinding noise starts when the tap is switched off, This fault is very intermittant and I couldn't replicate it.

It stops when a hot tap is opened and the customer can gradually decrease the noise by slowing the tap.

Upon inspection the Quooker pipework has no check valves on the hot and cold and surprisingly no blow off or expansion vessel of any kind.

I thought the fitters had ignored them and thrown them away but nope even the instructions doesn't mention check valves or expansion of any kind

https://quooker.ae/media/wysiwyg/Installation_guide_PRO3_AE.pdf

I should also mention the water meter is in the same cupboard as the Quooker tank.

Am I right in thinking it should have an expansion vessel, blow off and check valves?

Images attached, shocking "plumbing" work too be honest

Thanks

 

[cjg]

i don t know much about them , but i know you don t connect Quookers to any hot supply and ex vessels check valves should be fitted . the only reason is i know some kitchen fitters who do them.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

You don't need an expansion vessel for a Quooker, and the mixer tap is still connected to the Hot supply. Only the boiler has a cold feed.

There should be a Blow off though, the Check valve has been fitted for the Quooker. That's the Brass section I believe, however there should be a blow off (Unless they've changed since I last done one) that's tee'd into the waste as they are designed to drip on expansion. I generally pipe these to outside like a boiler PRV as the thing they send is utter c*** to go into the waste.

The kink in the water main is bad too.

 

[Jones82]

Any thoughts on the water hammer? Should there be a check valve on the hot from the combi?

There seems to be some kind of interaction between the combi and the quooker. The water hammer only started since it was fitted. The combi has been fitted for about 7 years.

This unit is different to ones I’ve fitted too, they definitely had a blow off and possibly check valves yet this one wasn’t supplied with any and has no mention of them in the instructions

I’m starting to doubt the quality of the quooker installation manual and will try their technical help line after Xmas

I’m also thinking of installing a shock arrestor on the cold supply to the boiler, again after Xmas!

Thanks

 

[cjg]

i did say i don t know much about them, spoke to one of the lads and yes i was wrong on some you do connect to a combi., and no exp vessel sorry for any mix up

 

[king of pipes]

I've only fitted one it's hard to make it look tidy as there's so much going on in the cupboard below , i would say something is piped wrong on your installation it looks rushed and untidy, study the installation instructions and compare to how yours is installed . Kop

 

[IND_Nick]

Morning, we fit quite a lot of these taps for a local kitchen company. They always come with their own 'combination valve' which has a check valve and pressure relief setup that needs to be discharged into the waste. From memory this is all to do with the boiling water side though, the hot and cold can be connected directly to the mains. None have needed expansion vessels though.
I assume there are different models but would expect all to have some sort of combination valve. The isolation setup etc on your photos does not look like the components provided with the tap.
More importantly that whole setup needs to come out and be redone as that is a serious leak waiting to happen.

 

[king of pipes]

I did notice this damaged pipe on closer inspection this need immediate attention the compression tee above looks dogdy to its a leak waiting to happen 😳. Kop

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Morning, we fit quite a lot of these taps for a local kitchen company. They always come with their own 'combination valve' which has a check valve and pressure relief setup that needs to be discharged into the waste. From memory this is all to do with the boiling water side though, the hot and cold can be connected directly to the mains. None have needed expansion vessels though.
I assume there are different models but would expect all to have some sort of combination valve. The isolation setup etc on your photos does not look like the components provided with the tap.
More importantly that whole setup needs to come out and be redone as that is a serious leak waiting to happen.

How do you tie in the safety’s to drain eg waste end ?

 

[IND_Nick]

How do you tie in the safety’s to drain eg waste end ?

Afternoon,

Depends on the setup. They come with a drill piece (makes a female thread in waste pipe) and adapter to drill into the waste and connect. With a bit of CT1 they have always been fine, but the tundish is not sealed so has to be with a open drain at end. If that's not an option we pipe like a D2 to external, normally in 22mm as plastic flexible pipe system inside it. I would add that they are, in my opinion, crazy expensive, I think close to £1k for most models. That's a lot of brews!!

 

[Jones82]

Thanks all, this was an Xmas Eve call out for a regular customer of mine who’s just had a kitchen fitted by kutchenhaus been abit of a nightmare in general. Now I’ll recommend they have the plumbing redone too!

In my original post I posted a link for the quooker manual and it has been fitted correctly, according to those. However once again the water hammer is horrendous.

Perhaps the quooker assumes enough pipework on the system for expansion but in this situation there isn’t. Or perhaps the quooker has room in the tank for expansion similar to a bubble top unvented.... I can’t see how they can do away with the expansion valve, once again it did not come with the unit and isn’t mentioned in the manual

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Vented tap ? Stop tap fully open ?

 

[Jones82]

It looks like a standard quooker fusion tap, I guess there may be a means of expansion built into the spout.... I don’t think so...

Next complaint will be why does the tap drip 😂

 

[Gasmk1]

My friend fits quooker and he cuts a hole in the base of the cabinet and lowers the quooker into thus it gives more room for piping up

 

[moonlight]

The copper pipe dosen't look like its square in the fittings to me and whats happened to the pipe above the stop tap? I can see water on a lower fitting. Never mind the water hammer. If its a Worcester it should have a shock arrester anyway.