Radiator off the wall - Am i able to remove radiator

[anagram]

Hi all,

The radiator has fallen off a wall on one side - the screw into the wall seems to have been into the mortar rather than the brick and come out (see Pic1).

Attached are the ends either side of the radiator - my question is, will I be able to isolate and drain this radiator myself? If so... any pointers?

then remove...repair the wall and re-attach. I have the skills for that, just never touched radiators before.

Many thanks.

 

[Stigster]

Yes this something a competent DIYer can do themselves. Here are the steps.

Tools required - Adjustable spanner. Water pump pliers (plumber's grips). Radiator bleed key. Shallow tray. Bucket. Old towels.

1. Close both valves of the radiator. The TRV (where you adjust the temperature) can be screwed closed to 0.
2. Pull the cap off the valve on the right (lockshield valve). It should pull straight up and off. Use an adjustable spanner or grips to close the valve spindle down in a clockwise fashion. Count the number of turns to close it and make note. You will want to open it up the same amount of turns when put back into service.
3. Open the bleed vent at the top of the rad, keep an old towel handy and catch the dribble of water that may or may not issue from there. When there is no air or water coming out of the bleed screw, you have proved the valves are not letting by and it's safe to drain the radiator.
4. Use your grips to hold the body of the lockshield valve tightly and an adjustable spanner to slowly undo the nut closest to the radiator NOT the nut connected to the pipe.
5. Water will start to trickle from the radiator valve area. Catch the water in a shallow container and keep a bucket handy to empty the shallow tray into as you go. Or use a wet vacuum if you have access to one.
6. Don't rush, you may need to gently pry the valve away from the rad to get the water to flow out. Don't use much force. Do that slowly and carefully, you don't want to pull it completely away, just open up the gap to control flow of water.
7. When the water stops flowing you can undo the other valve (TRV) in the same way and lift the radiator off its brackets. It should pull upwards and off the wall. Do this over the old towel as it may drip black sludge on the floor. Tip the last of the water from rad into bucket.

You can then reattach the radiator brackets into the wall and do everything in the reverse order to get it back on.

If the radiator is going to be off the wall more than a few minutes you should cap off the open ends of the valves with a 1/2 inch female blanking cap incase one of them lets by.

Post again when you want to reattach and we can advise further if you have any concerns.

 

[anagram]

Thats brilliant, thanks a lot for the run through.

Porbably won't touch this until the weekend as pipes are fine etc.

Does the lockshield Valve and TRV screwed to 0 stop the water flow into the radiator?

thanks again

 

[Stigster]

Does the lockshield Valve and TRV screwed to 0 stop the water flow into the radiator?

Yes they completely stop the flow. The only problem is if they are failing and letting by but you can prove they are working when you open the bleed vent at the top. If there's no water coming out of there (after possibly issuing a small amount of water when first opened) then the valves are closed and doing their job holding the water back.

 

[anagram]

Yes they completely stop the flow. The only problem is if they are failing and letting by but you can prove they are working when you open the bleed vent at the top. If there's no water coming out of there (after possibly issuing a small amount of water when first opened) then the valves are closed and doing their job holding the water back.

Cheers, thanks a lot. I'll get some female blanking caps as the rad wil be off for best part of a day to repair and paint the wall.

 

[Danb]

Well that sorted that good post stigster.

 

[townfanjon]

Yes this something a competent DIYer can do themselves. Here are the steps.

Tools required - Adjustable spanner. Water pump pliers (plumber's grips). Radiator bleed key. Shallow tray. Bucket. Old towels.

1. Close both valves of the radiator. The TRV (where you adjust the temperature) can be screwed closed to 0.
2. Pull the cap off the valve on the right (lockshield valve). It should pull straight up and off. Use an adjustable spanner or grips to close the valve spindle down in a clockwise fashion. Count the number of turns to close it and make note. You will want to open it up the same amount of turns when put back into service.
3. Open the bleed vent at the top of the rad, keep an old towel handy and catch the dribble of water that may or may not issue from there. When there is no air or water coming out of the bleed screw, you have proved the valves are not letting by and it's safe to drain the radiator.
4. Use your grips to hold the body of the lockshield valve tightly and an adjustable spanner to slowly undo the nut closest to the radiator NOT the nut connected to the pipe.
5. Water will start to trickle from the radiator valve area. Catch the water in a shallow container and keep a bucket handy to empty the shallow tray into as you go. Or use a wet vacuum if you have access to one.
6. Don't rush, you may need to gently pry the valve away from the rad to get the water to flow out. Don't use much force. Do that slowly and carefully, you don't want to pull it completely away, just open up the gap to control flow of water.
7. When the water stops flowing you can undo the other valve (TRV) in the same way and lift the radiator off its brackets. It should pull upwards and off the wall. Do this over the old towel as it may drip black sludge on the floor. Tip the last of the water from rad into bucket.

You can then reattach the radiator brackets into the wall and do everything in the reverse order to get it back on.

If the radiator is going to be off the wall more than a few minutes you should cap off the open ends of the valves with a 1/2 inch female blanking cap incase one of them lets by.

Post again when you want to reattach and we can advise further if you have any concerns.

Jeez , did you copy and paste that lot ?

 

[Stigster]

Jeez , did you copy and paste that lot ?

No, I'm a fairly fast typist as I was one of the first groups of boys to do secretarial studies at secondary school in the early 90s. I did RSA Stage II touch typing exams through that class. One of the exams (on electric typewriters) even made us use a keyboard overlay with no markings so you had to know where every character and key was. Certainly taught me well though.

 

[townfanjon]

No, I'm a fairly fast typist as I was one of the first groups of boys to do secretarial studies at secondary school in the early 90s. I did RSA Stage II touch typing exams through that class. One of the exams (on electric typewriters) even made us use a keyboard overlay with no markings so you had to know where every character and key was. Certainly taught me well though.

Blimey we need a WOW button now , as well as a WTF one .

 

[anagram]

Okay then...

Tightening the valve spindle, the top has snapped off. It was still spinning, if not a bit stiff but it wasn't hard to close.

Is this still doable, or do I need to call someone out to replace this?

 

[Stigster]

Dagnabbit! That is actually a fairly rare occurrence but like everything in life, nothing is ever simple.

Still doable but obviously the valve should be changed for future maintenance purposes. So, if you think you didn't get it closed all the way, all is not lost. Looks to me that you have enough spindle left sticking up to get the job done and it must be nearly closed. Grab it with some grips or pliers and see if you can still turn it to completely close it. TRV closed as well.

Then get your towel and and bleed key and open the bleed screw as discussed in my first post to you. Open it, watch it for three or four minutes and if no more water comes out the bleed screw you are still ok to drain the radiator and put your blanking caps on to do your bracket repair.

If it is letting by and water keeps coming from the bleed screw then just close the screw and you'll either need more advice on changing the damaged lockshield valve or you could call someone in. It depends on your priorities with the rad and the room whether you bite the bullet and change the valve now or get it back on it's brackets, probably be able to open the lockshield again and deal with it later. Decision time!

We can advise either way. Good luck!

 

[anagram]

You guys are mint. Will the valve come to a full close like a stop?

Cheers

 

[Stigster]

Yes it will come to a stop. It shouldn't take a lot of force to close it either but to say how much is rather difficult to describe as you'll appreciate.

The important thing is to do your check at the bleed screw. Just remember you may initially get a small amount of water from there to begin with but would be less than a mug full. If it stops, keep the bleed vent open and watch it for a bit. No more water = the valves are closed properly.

The important thing is not to panic if the water does not stop because you can just do up the bleed screw to stop it. Only open the bleed screw between a half and full turn, no more because you don't want it coming out. If you need to close it you just apply enough pressure to stop the water and no more. That's all it needs.

 

[anagram]

Yes it will come to a stop. It shouldn't take a lot of force to close it either but to say how much is rather difficult to describe as you'll appreciate.

The important thing is to do your check at the bleed screw. Just remember you may initially get a small amount of water from there to begin with but would be less than a mug full. If it stops, keep the bleed vent open and watch it for a bit. No more water = the valves are closed properly.

The important thing is not to panic if the water does not stop because you can just do up the bleed screw to stop it. Only open the bleed screw between a half and full turn, no more because you don't want it coming out. If you need to close it you just apply enough pressure to stop the water and no more. That's all it needs.

Bleed worked! Must have stopped the valve in the process of snapping. No air, no water.

Screwfix tomorrow to get the bits and bobs then D-day Saturday. It would make sense I guess to replace the bit that snapped whilst going there.

Thanks for your help so far stig!!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

you will have to drain down if your going to replace that part (aka the lock shield valve)

 

[Stigster]

My pleasure. Pick up a half inch to 15mm compression 90 degree angle lockshield valve and if you want to look at changing the whole valve or just get the rad back up for now, either way one of us can help. It's up to you.

Also get a roll of white PTFE tape whilst at the stores, very inexpensive but gives a simple reliable way to seal the compression olives if you have any small weeps when reassembled, not for the valve threads but for the compression ring (olive) seals. I'd hate for you to get a weep and not have the stuff. Some people prefer jointing compound but that'll cost a lot more and you'll probably never use it again. PTFE is cheap and works very well.

 

[anagram]

My pleasure. Pick up a half inch to 15mm compression 90 degree angle lockshield valve and if you want to look at changing the whole valve or just get the rad back up for now, either way one of us can help. It's up to you.

Also get a roll of white PTFE tape whilst at the stores, very inexpensive but gives a simple reliable way to seal the compression olives if you have any small weeps when reassembled, not for the valve threads but for the compression ring (olive) seals. I'd hate for you to get a weep and not have the stuff. Some people prefer jointing compound but that'll cost a lot more and you'll probably never use it again. PTFE is cheap and works very well.

Thanks stig.

I'll pick up a new valve - is it going to be much more hassle or do you think its worth doing whilst the radiator is off the wall?

 

[Stigster]

It's doable and I would say yes, whilst the rad is down you might as well replace it. Where is the radiator situated? Is it upstairs or ground floor? Does your system have any radiators on any floors higher than it?

Basically three options.

Seeing as you can get tools on the broken spindle and turn it, just fix your brackets and get it back up and running. It may not need any more interference and give years of service - broken spindle head or not.

Replace the valve completely yourself with some advice from these forums.

Ask a plumber to do it, it's not a big job and they will know what to do but it'll cost you more of course.

Is your system sealed (pressurised) or is it open vent and fed from a small tank in a loft? Answers to these questions will help to determine how we go about doing this, whether to drain the system or do it by "trapping" the water in the system which can be a bit nerve-wracking when you aren't used to it.

I think a decision should be made on what to do when we at our end know what type of system we are dealing with.

 

[anagram]

It's doable and I would say yes, whilst the rad is down you might as well replace it. Where is the radiator situated? Is it upstairs or ground floor? Does your system have any radiators on any floors higher than it?

Basically three options.

Seeing as you can get tools on the broken spindle and turn it, just fix your brackets and get it back up and running. It may not need any more interference and give years of service - broken spindle head or not.

Replace the valve completely yourself with some advice from these forums.

Ask a plumber to do it, it's not a big job and they will know what to do but it'll cost you more of course.

Is your system sealed (pressurised) or is it open vent and fed from a small tank in a loft? Answers to these questions will help to determine how we go about doing this, whether to drain the system or do it by "trapping" the water in the system which can be a bit nerve-wracking when you aren't used to it.

I think a decision should be made on what to do when we at our end know what type of system we are dealing with.

Radiator is upstairs, no other radiators above it. Two others on the same floor at the same level.

Pressurised boiler system in the kitchen on the ground floor.

Cheers

 

[Stigster]

Thanks for the info. If I was doing the job myself I'd change the valve with the system full and have my wet vac ready just in case. With the valves on the other two radiators on the same floor closed and no way for air to enter the system it should hold the water back when taking off the old valve. Or I might freeze the pipe but that's not really a good option for DIY.

It feels like it shouldn't work but it does which is the slightly nerve-wracking part!

The system pressure must absolutely be reduced to zero to do this though, normally doing this by opening the drain-off downstairs to drop the pressure before removing the broken valve off the pipe. I would drain the problem radiator first as described in my original post then with all of the rad valves in the house closed, open the drain off at low level until the water stops coming out. Then change the broken valve. The water will be locked in the pipework as long as air cannot enter the system higher up which is not a problem on a sealed system.

However, there being only two rads on the top floor with it, I'm tempted to suggest a partial drain down to do the work. Less scary.

I'd like to ask my esteemed colleagues on the forum which method they would advise in your situation? Any input very welcome at this stage!

 

[Lou]

Great posts @Stigster

Are you all fixed now op?

 

[anagram]

Sideways but rad is off the wall - going to do some repair work, paint etc and get the bracket on then reattach tomorrow. Previous homeowner was a lazy sod!

No leaks from the pipes etc. Going to leave the valve for another time.

I could kiss you stigster!

 

[Stigster]

Well done, anagram! You have done mightily well. I remember tackling jobs like this when I was just starting out as an apprentice. I used to get so nervous back then, all in a day's work now though!

I'm proud of you mate, a lot of people wouldn't have done that themselves.

Come back any time you need assistance. I've enjoyed helping out on this one. Your valve with the snapped head is still fully functional so no hurry to replace.

 

[anagram]

Right then! Rad back on the wall.. Pipes connected.. No leaks. And I can't open the valve!

 

[Stigster]

Damn! That's torn it!

Only one answer now. You're going to need to change the valve. I'm sorry you have had some terrible luck as well as DIY triumph on this one.

As an absolute last resort, like there is a cold baby staying in the room or something similar, you could try cutting a slot in the spindle with a hacksaw and turn it with a screwdriver. You will not cause a leak on the valve doing that but things are getting silly by that point. If it was the only rad in a freezing spacestation that's what I'd do but realistically it's time to change it.

You've done so well so far and learned a lot about radiators at least.