Range-cooker fitting

[pipeup]

I've spoken to a gas engineer (he doesn't like to be called a plumber) on the phone about disconnecting my gas cooker and connecting a range to the supply. He has told me that I will need to change the pipework back to the meter from 15mm to 20mm- is this true....?

....And if it is, why is there a 15mm valve on the connecting hose??

Yours in ignorance!

 

[newbie1]

he is probably correct but hard to check from keyboard
usually for an appliance of this size 22mm pipework from meter wld be a precaution as if he uses the 15mm supply then gas rates the cooker and the pressure is too low its twice as much work to put right
same with boilers you run a 22mm supply then reduce at appliance to 15mm

 

[Mushybees]

Does he have his CKHB1 ticket for installing range cookers?

 

[Paul Barker]

Gas Safe have added this to our tickets if we hold cpa1 ckr1 amd boilers I think it is.

I phoned them about it and yes it#s not a mistake.

I phoned AGA who were horrified but confirmed it is correct though their statement was "we are awaiting confirmation from Gassafe as to what this actually means".

My interpretation is that if something goes wrong you must in any case be able to prove competence to the coronor. Gassafe saying it's ok to do doesn't mean in courtt you are competent. You must be allowed by gas safe but your personal competence is your affair, and your rope to be hung with if you don't posess it.

So anybody wanting to work on ranges should best get training on the actual range.

 

[stevetheplumber]

Does he have his CKHB1 ticket for installing range cookers?

ok suprise me have the training centers found a new way of getting my money? do i now need another course to fit range cookers?
if this is the case i think it would have been nice of gas safe to inform me

 

[wnjswozo]

another course to take to fit ranges,money for old for these traing centres,next will be a servicing acs

 

[stevetheplumber]

another course to take to fit ranges,money for old for these traing centres,next will be a servicing acs

just have a look around the van we need a licence to use an angle grinder now so next will be drills and breakers seperately of course
my list of qualifications gets longer by the day fast track is the way forwards as having served an apprentiship means nothing now if it wasnt taught by using a power point demo and an hour in the class room(£150 thany you very much )it doesnt mens jack

 

[Paul Barker]

Ranges always have required an element. There have been some high profile well publicised cases of gas fitteres without ranges hauled over the coals and prosicuted by corgi.

I know we aren't corgi now but the history is relevant and the inspectors are the same people.

This isn't something new it was taken very seriously to work out of scope.

 

[wnjswozo]

paul how long is the course ,i bet its not more than half a day and bet thats dragged out, its a joke as a time served gas eng with bg ,i remember when corgi was brought in and at the time one of the corgi insp predicted all these so called course to make money for the boys ,and how he was right, no one who has not served a full apprenticeship and has at least 5 yrs full working experaince should be allowed to work on gas ,but guess what you go on 6 week course and know it all now,because its big business sorry about rant the countrys gone health/ safety mad

 

[migoplumber]

and me personally not having range cookers - but having a good gas ticket, would love too know more about a high profile well published court case and the outcome.
ive installed 3 in my lifetime, all done proper. unrequired expense of 110quid for an extra bit on my ticket and quite happy to tell gas safe about them if they ask me.

still waiting for a reply from them with regard to installing my mum in laws boiler, and filling out the benchmark ticket.

they make me mad.

 

[Paul Barker]

It must have been about 2 years ago dealt with by A.R.G.I. you would have to search there forum for the discussion.

But just a minute are you saying you think it's ok to work out of scope?

 

[migoplumber]

nobody should work out of scope. my interpretation of a range cooker is "a big cooker" never seen in the manufacturers instructions that, that is not so. hence like many of the regs, we make our own intepretations!!

 

[NO1PLUMBER]

i asked 3 gas engineers does range cookers come under ckr1 all said they thought does. i see theres a CKHB1 QUAL, but gas safe added it to my quals on there website, but aint taken the exam. so strange. there is confusion !

 

[Paul Barker]

gas safe added it to my quals on there website !

That is because you have Comb Analysis. Cookers and Gas Boilers; by default you have Range Cookers. It should also be on your card.

 

[prs1]

I think the term range in this instance doesnt apply to a big cooker ie 6 x burners and a plate warmer it is refering to a big cooker with a flue ie:the relevance of having cpa1 on yer ticket plus.I think the point paul is making is that the likes of aga make some big flued ranges which have forced draft burners which are specialist,but now anyone might feel free to have a bash at fitting one due to the inclusion of this element on their card.
Personnaly i have this on my card and would not feel or be competant to do this,but some may.Remember as said before just because its on the card if something went wrong could u prove competance.
I Could not and iam not ashamed to admit it,ive never encountered one of these beasts!
Better left to them that know or get the training.

Thats that rant over Paul

 

[Addoll 10]

I have checked this already and gas safe had blamed Corgi for suppling incorrect details in regards to Range cookers and assessment requirements.Basically it you havent taken CKHB 1 then you risk possible prosecution by working out of scope.
The definition of "range cooker" is where the problem lies.
A shop bourght lesiure range cooker (other brands available) is not really a range cooker but a big cooker.
A true range cooker is of an aga type which could have a boiler or even a small blown gas burner in.
Whether you feel competent on these is your call.
In regards to pipe sizing for gas supplies does no one bother to work this out any more?
Any good reference material holds this and it takes 10mins to do.

 

[migoplumber]

thrwing a spanner in your works, as i like to do, if i have cookers on my ticket alonging with force draught burners (commercial) along with me COMCAT can i work on a range cooker -aga type?

 

[Addoll 10]

Dont be silly.
Dont you know all engineers forget all related knowledge when encountering different appliances.
I have full domestic and commercial but cant fix my bbq!

 

[danielp]

what about small rayburns with x2 plates and intergrated boiler didnt have a clue really!

 

[oldplumber]

Isn't it the case that a range cooker is just a large cooker with a flue, hence why your combined elements allow you to fit ranges now. All aga is worried about is maintaining a high cost profile and limited number of engineers to make the customers feel good about their expensive purchases. The old model agas are just simplex burners with a flue, easy to maintain and follow the MFIs when you install/maintain it.

 

[Deleted member 2053]

Isn't it the case that a range cooker is just a large cooker with a flue, hence why your combined elements allow you to fit ranges now. All aga is worried about is maintaining a high cost profile and limited number of engineers to make the customers feel good about their expensive purchases. The old model agas are just simplex burners with a flue, easy to maintain and follow the MFIs when you install/maintain it.

Agreed! Try dealing with AGA for any kind of tech and spares support. They seem to think they are the creme de la creme whom you should only approach after removing your shoes.