Renewable Heat Incentive

[unguided1]

If any one is interested in this scheme from the Government then this is the website to look at Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) Scheme - Department of Energy and Climate Change

I predict that this time in 2 years time there will be another unworkable Government scheme falling flat on its face with everyone congratulting themselves on what a wonderfull job they have done!!!!

Have a look and tell me what you think

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi Unguided,

The RHI isn't designed to be in place for ever, as it has worked so effectively in Europe eg. France & Germany it is purely to accelerate the market to a point where it is buoyant on its own.

 

[unguided1]

So does this mean that the MCS as a body will only last as long as the RHI or will it end up just being another body such as gas safe?

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi There,

No MCS is the assurance scheme for Renewables and will remain as the mark of quality. Financial incentives such as the RHI will always come and go as they have done such as the Low Carbon Building's Programme. The MCS Scheme is a gateway to these incentives.

 

[unguided1]

so how about my idea for your company to lead the call to make it easier and cheaper for us one man bands to be properly MCS accredited, I know that as a self employed person I cant afford it, or a call for one umbrella organisation to cover Oil, Gas, Solid Fuel and Renewables I have worked with all but the cost of belonging to each organisation is prohibitive We need a voice in the industry that actually gets taken seriously, or would it be the case that there is no profit in it for you

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi Unguided,

We would be happy to present your views to the DECC and REA but i can tell you that there are increasing numbers of "one man bands" achieving MCS Accreditation. Many are obtaining loans which they then pay back with their first install so I am not sure whether the opinion would be that of the majority.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i for one wouldn't care to take out a loan to get accredited on the off chance of getting work. so in effect you're saying to overcharge on your first install to get a decent profit and repay the loan.

 

[unguided1]

Hi Unguided,

We would be happy to present your views to the DECC and REA but i can tell you that there are increasing numbers of "one man bands" achieving MCS Accreditation. Many are obtaining loans which they then pay back with their first install so I am not sure whether the opinion would be that of the majority.

I find this a very depressing attitude to be honest, considering the state the country is in because of credit and now your suggesting taking out loans on the offchance that some installers may get more work, Its no wonder this country is in so much trouble, I feel that it has been proven that the MCS does not care about the customer having seen MCS accredited installs and put them right. As I see it we are being forced to keep all the information that MCS require on the customer without any form of payment from the MCS and we are being asked to pay through the nose for it as well as having to keep all our qualifications up to date and pay different accreditation bodies to be members of them, I can not believe that I am the only person who can see the injustice in this.

I have no objection to paying for anything if I feel there is real value in it for my self or my customer, but I truly do not see any benefit for any one except for the trainning schools, companies such as yourselves, and ultimatley the government. I once again ask why is our trade being so splintered this way because at the end of the day people who can do a good job who pay there way are constantly being penalised by the constant money grabbing. yet the true cowboys constantly get away with it.

Before you say cowboys wont be able to get away with it, I say your living in a dream world because you only have to look at gas to realise that thousands of people get away with doing Gas work whilst unregistered.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

your not the only one unguided. it seems to me that there is a lot of profit to be had by these companies at our expence. as you say there are many unregistered gas installers, there will probably just as many mcs non registered fitters. at the moment the cost of mcs training and registration is unrealistic for the sole trader like myself.

ok it's fair enough to pass costs of training and registration onto customers, but without bookings for this type of work you are going to have to dip really deep into your reserves to go down this route without any real guarantees of recouping your expenses.

 

[unguided1]

Hiya Steveb

what I cant understand is how our industry has got to this point, Originaly when Corgi was voluntary every one said it wouldnt be long before its mandatory but you could still do oil and solid fuel, Yes I agree that the industry needs regulating and the real cowboys need to be driven out, but pricing the regulatory bodies and the training and constant repeat training does not deter cowboys because they dont worry about all the costs that we have it encourages them because they know they can undercut us every time, the customer doesnt know they are getting a bodged job until it all goes wrong
Then you can look at the other end of the scale where you have a big company with big fat profits doing the same as the cowboys with dodgy sales tactics and certain engineers seemingly not able to find the simplest of faults, I definately wont mention the name of one company in particular who are accredited and registerd, might get sued, but we all know who they are!!
Something has got to change and for the life of me I have no idea why anybody would want to get into this trade and think they will make big money, unless they intend to rip off every one they meet

 

[Wag]

Hi Unguided,

You only have to look at the strongest lobby groups within our industry to know why the MCS is as hard to crack as it is. Big players Like BG etc stitch it up because they want to charge thier high prices without competing with people like us. They thought that they were on a winner when they lobbied government to make Corgi mandatory, but they didnt make it hard or expensive enough to stop us guys getting registered, but this time round they've pulled out all the stops. Fine if you have an accounts, planning & paperwork department and are already registered iso 9002, and have specialist teams running round in liveried vans, MCS looks really attractive! These large companies have practically set up the MCS and the rest of the regulatory bodies. They want the business for themselves. When was the last time you quoted against BG and what was the difference?
I am in total agreement with you, we need someone to champion our cause, But not the ex BG blokes who run all these statutory bodies!!

 

[dontknowitall]

That's an interesting point ... is there anything to stop a band of plumbers from forming their own MCS scheme?

 

[markfxy]

That's an interesting point ... is there anything to stop a band of plumbers from forming their own MCS scheme?

Good idea maybe a group of plumbers split the cost of a small office with somebody competent in mcs paperwork and signing off inspections?

 

[eaton]

Just trying to get an assessment date is hard enough, funny how theperson you need to speak to is never there yet they ring at the most inconvenient time, waiting 4 days for napit now, called twice in those 4 days too, Diane seems a hard person to contact

 

[unguided1]

Hi Unguided,

You only have to look at the strongest lobby groups within our industry to know why the MCS is as hard to crack as it is. Big players Like BG etc stitch it up because they want to charge thier high prices without competing with people like us. They thought that they were on a winner when they lobbied government to make Corgi mandatory, but they didnt make it hard or expensive enough to stop us guys getting registered, but this time round they've pulled out all the stops. Fine if you have an accounts, planning & paperwork department and are already registered iso 9002, and have specialist teams running round in liveried vans, MCS looks really attractive! These large companies have practically set up the MCS and the rest of the regulatory bodies. They want the business for themselves. When was the last time you quoted against BG and what was the difference?
I am in total agreement with you, we need someone to champion our cause, But not the ex BG blokes who run all these statutory bodies!!

Hi Wag

Wow where did you come from, Thank you for your input you have said much more clearly in one thread than I have managed since I started moaning, thank you.
Personally I wouldnt know where to start changing things, All I definately know is I am fed up with being told what I have got to do, and how much I have got to pay, to work in a trade that I have been working in for over 30 years This trade needs a revolution to bring it back to how it should be, and not a profit machine for powerless and sterile accreditation bodies.

 

[Wag]

Hi Unguided
I went on a bit of a rant with my first post because its something that has been getting to me for a long time, sadly the organisation which should be covering all our backs when these bodies are set up are a bunch of yes men who have forgotten what it is to do a hard days work on the tools and then spend three hours on an evening quoting and invoicing. That body is the CIHPE but they are far too general a group representing all Manufacturers, plumbers, etc.etc. I would say what we really need is a Union, purely for sole traders and small limited companies wth a limited turnover. Ie under £100,000, or profit, under £50,000. I am however surprised that the manufacturers lobby did not come out more strongly infavour of the 'little guy'.

In fact why are registration fees not linked to turnover? I could send the final page of my tax return to Oftec, Gas Safe & MCS and be charged accordingly, that way if I only do 2 solar systems a year its still profitable! There is no justice in "one fee covers all"
In The area where I live and work, North Lincolnshire, peoples plumbing needs are so varied that to stay in business I have to be a general plumber, I would like to specialise, narrow my field down to one type of work and reduce my costs accordingly, but I still find myself changing tap washers and unblocking toilets, all the way up to fitting ASHP's with expensive underfloor heating systems, (they are few and far between). But no two jobs are ever the same. I find that I am now avoiding quoting for any installation, new build or renovation, where renewables even get a mention, because I know they will need to be registered with MCS to get the RHI and I cant make that promise. VERY FRUSTRATING

 

[dontknowitall]

I'm in total agreement with you Wag.

It's a shame that we feel like this when most of us want to do better for our planet/grandchildren but feel we can't because of the cost of this red tape.

 

[Toddyplumb]

As you may know from some of my posts on this subject I am very scepticle of these schemes . However I have (with some others) kicked up a big enough fuss to get some training FOC . As a small company I will keep you posted on how I get on with my route to MCS registration, as soon as I think it is not a viable business proposition I will stop. As I have said in previous posts we cannot control illegal gas work , what chance cowboy renewable installers. Look at the thread on Kingspan HP 200 !!!!!!!!
I would be fully in favour of licenced plumbers , how it would work I have no idea

 

[markfxy]

I know I've mentioned this before but I think the manufacturers should take responsibility for registering their equipment for rhi as long as you do a manufacturers course surely installers would use they're equipment rather than go through the MCS rigmarole or am I just talking rubbish!

 

[unguided1]

I know I've mentioned this before but I think the manufacturers should take responsibility for registering their equipment for rhi as long as you do a manufacturers course surely installers would use they're equipment rather than go through the MCS rigmarole or am I just talking rubbish!

I dunno if it still happens but whenever I used to install oil boilers the manufacturers would come out an commision it for you, so it well may be worth talking to manufacturers reps to see if they will do the sign offs, having said that though if as a self employed person or a company you supply and install the equipment you only charge the customer 5% VAT but the manufacturers can not becuse they are not installing so its all a bit of a minefield.

 

[Wag]

I asked Calorex to sign off my 1 ASHP install, They manufacture and badge for Ideal, and they said NO, but they would check it for £300 quid!!

To be fair to Calorex I had so many issues with Ideal that Calorex stepped in and allowed me to use thier Tech support because Ideal were so useless, typically jumping into a marketplace that they were neither ready or trained for. Couldn't even give me correct sizes for the combined cylinder they were pedalling, as a result it didnt fit and had to go back.

Is there no other route to registration, local building regs etc.???

 

[Toddyplumb]

And you can only charge 5% VAT if you are VAT registered so in theory you should be cheaper than the bodge it guy !

 

[Iocchipinti]

The Government have now finally released the full details about the RHPP, a boiler scrappage like scheme to encourage people to install renewable technologies.

Essentially they are giving householders a voucher for a fixed amount if they fit a Heat Pump, Biomass boiler or Solar Thermal.

Full details can be found here http://www.centralheating.co.uk/sys...ts/0000/4358/RHPP_Installer_Leaflet_Final.pdf

It will be run by the Energy Saving Trust so if you have any questions it is best to try them first on 0800 512 012

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Dear Member,

The Government announced today its new £15 million ‘Renewable Heat Premium Payment’ scheme – which will open for applications on 1st August this year until March next year which they anticipate will support up to 25,000 installations. £3m of the £15m will be set aside for registered social landlords to improve their housing stock. Details of how to apply for these funds will be announced at a later date.

Eligible technologies

· Solar thermal hot water panels - £300 grant (available to all households regardless of the type of heating system used)
· Ground Source Heat Pump - £1250 grant (for homes without mains gas heating)
· Biomass boiler - £950 grant (for homes without mains gas heating)
· Air source heat pump - £850 grant (for homes without mains gas heating)


Summary of Scheme Conditions
Households will be able to apply to the Energy Saving Trust (EST) from the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Aug 2011. The house must be the main home and it must have basic energy efficiency measures in place. This means the householder will need to confirm they have loft insulation to 250mm and cavity wall insulation, where these measures are practical. The renewable heat product must be listed under the Microgeneration Certification Scheme (we believe the intention is to include Solar Keymark however the press statement is unclear), and be installed by someone registered under the scheme.

Once the equipment is up and running, the householder will be asked to fill in two customer surveys and may be chosen at random to have extra meters attached to the installation which will be provided free of charge. It is a condition of the scheme that if requested these meters installed.

To see the press release click here and for the scheme rules click here.

 

[unguided1]

May be these meters should be installed on all installations that would then definately get rid of the cowboys