Replacing the doughnut and rusted bolts

[Lakelander]

The joint between my WC pan and the cistern is leaking - I suspect that the doughnut needs replacing.
I imagine that this would be easy enough for a competent plumber.
However, the two bolts and the associated nuts holding the cistern to the WC pan have rusted.

I have three questions here:

1. Can you offer any suggestions as to how I undo the retaining nuts without damaging the cistern or the WC pan?
2. Can you suggest suitable stainless steel bolts and nuts to avoid their rusting in future?
3. There is something of a problem with steam from the shower condensing on the (cold) cistern resulting in a puddle on the floor - can I do anything to prevent this?

Thanks in advance for any helpful replies.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

You’ll have to hacksaw/multitool/dremmel the wing nuts off. Stainless steel ones are supposedly available.

 

[Lakelander]

You’ll have to hacksaw/multitool/dremmel the wing nuts off. Stainless steel ones are supposedly available.

Thanks for that, I will give it a go; sadly it is in a VERY confined space and I am not as supple as I was (some) years ago!

 

[WC1]

I use viva ss nuts and bolts - nice thick cone washer

Viva Bolt Through Close Coupled Cistern Bolts And Wing Nuts PP0021

A well priced stainless steel bolt through kit, for connecting toilet cistern to bowl, includes two bolts, conical washers, washers and wing nuts…

plumbinbits.co.uk

This can be useful for disassembly:
Amazon product
(Amazon link doesn't look right)

 

[Lakelander]

I use viva ss nuts and bolts - nice thick cone washer

Many thanks for that, I will get a pair of those, they look absolutely ideal.

 

[SimonG]

Stainless or brass. As for condensation then its ventilation that's required.

 

[Lakelander]

Stainless or brass. As for condensation then its ventilation that's required.

Thanks for that. Whoops - I had overlooked Brass . . . I will probably still pursue the stainless steel route now.

As to condensation, you are 100% right, I am all too familiar with "damp" and even own a dehumidifier - sadly not much use in a bathroom. However, I suspect that leaving a window wide open in a Ground Floor bathroom is not going to happen.

Regardless, thanks for the reply.

 

[WC1]

Is there no extract fan

Thanks for that. Whoops - I had overlooked Brass . . . I will probably still pursue the stainless steel route now.

As to condensation, you are 100% right, I am all too familiar with "damp" and even own a dehumidifier - sadly not much use in a bathroom. However, I suspect that leaving a window wide open in a Ground Floor bathroom is not going to happen.

Regardless, thanks for the reply.

?

 

[gpbeck]

Thanks for that. Whoops - I had overlooked Brass . . . I will probably still pursue the stainless steel route now.

As to condensation, you are 100% right, I am all too familiar with "damp" and even own a dehumidifier - sadly not much use in a bathroom. However, I suspect that leaving a window wide open in a Ground Floor bathroom is not going to happen.

Regardless, thanks for the reply.

Ground floor - fit an extractor fan.

 

[Lakelander]

There is a (working) Vent-Axia humidistat extractor fan, on the outside wall, above the WC, it is always switched on when the bathroom light is switched on and the "overrun" delay is set to maximum.

I suspect that nothing much is going to help here - but thanks anyway - mopping the floor daily doubtless helps with hygiene .

 

[Roy_66]

Response to pan bolts question:

Assume first soaked with penetrating oil for a few days?

Done one recently with mole grips in one hand on the wing nut/end of bolt, and padsaw (hacksaw blade) in the other hand. Hard work. Multitool idea above sounds better - get a friend to hold the grips if you need two hands on the multitool. Mine had really poor access.

Before doing anything, have a look from the side to Check the alignment i.e. are pan bolts vertical. A lot of modern donuts are too small for any missalignment (rejected Screwfix and BES.co.uk, ended up with B&Q donut which was traditional decent size), also mount plates a bit thin these days (I doubled up the Screwfix with the BES).

Other trick I did was to put some home made shims round the Syphon, to make sure it stays central in the tank hole. Just cut up an old washer for that.

And finally apply some grease on the reassembly of the new nuts (whatever material the nuts are made from)

Best of luck

Cheers,

Roy (amateur plumber)

 

[Chuck]

There is a (working) Vent-Axia humidistat extractor fan, on the outside wall, above the WC, it is always switched on when the bathroom light is switched on and the "overrun" delay is set to maximum.

There needs to be a second opening, typically a gap under the door or leave the door open an inch, to let dry air in. Absent this, the fan just lowers the pressure in the room without transferring any.

 

[Lakelander]

Response to pan bolts question:

Assume first soaked with penetrating oil for a few days?

Done one recently with mole grips in one hand on the wing nut/end of bolt, and padsaw (hacksaw blade) in the other hand. Hard work. Multitool idea above sounds better - get a friend to hold the grips if you need two hands on the multitool. Mine had really poor access.

Before doing anything, have a look from the side to Check the alignment i.e. are pan bolts vertical. A lot of modern donuts are too small for any missalignment (rejected Screwfix and BES.co.uk, ended up with B&Q donut which was traditional decent size), also mount plates a bit thin these days (I doubled up the Screwfix with the BES).

Other trick I did was to put some home made shims round the Syphon, to make sure it stays central in the tank hole. Just cut up an old washer for that.

And finally apply some grease on the reassembly of the new nuts (whatever material the nuts are made from)

Best of luck

Cheers,

Roy (amateur plumber)

Thanks for that; I have arranged for a plumber to have a look on Wednesday, I will pass on your suggestions.

As it happens I will not be "on site" until Sunday - I will spray some WD-40 on the bolts and I will also put some grease on the bolts. Access is not going to be easy because the WC is jammed between a wash hand basin and a wall. A Dremel sounds as if it would help.

 

[Lakelander]

There needs to be a second opening, typically a gap under the door or leave the door open an inch, to let dry air in. Absent this, the fan just lowers the pressure in the room without transferring any.

I take your point here, an air vent in the door would make sense, just in case; I will fit one.