Scammed by training provider!!!

[Dumplumb]

• Hi all, I am hoping that somebody can help me. Last year I enrolled on what I was told was a plumbing course with New Career Skills. I know that a lot of plumbers disagree with these type of courses and I can understand why. But at 32 apprenticeships are hard to come by and this seemed like my only option as I really want to get into this trade. Anyway, I have now found out ( £5500 later ) that I will not be gaining the full City and Guilds 6129 but instead I will be receiving the 6128 Heating and Ventilating Technical certificate which I have been told isn't even a proper plumbing qualification. Basically I have been miss sold this course to which I am extremely angry and am now thinking of taking legal action against NCS. My question is, what is this 6128 qualification that I will receive and is it something I can use or build on, as I am hoping I haven't wasted £5500 and 18 months of my life. Any ideas would be appreciated as I don't know what to do. I
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[Barry98]

you will not of been the first and you will not be the last , alot of these style of colleges play on pepole like you all the time.

i assume you have signed some form of documentaion my advice is go see the citizen advice and see what they say but i dioubt youll get anywhere as the colleges do tend to have this wrapped up in written documentation rather then what the rep said or emplied verbally , which they no doubt will deny

 

[djnibz]

Whats wrong with the 6128?
BTW the 6129 isn't even a full plumbing qualification; you need to do the nvq to become fully qualified!

 

[Dumplumb]

Yeah I know Bod. Its my own fault really for not looking into it more, but I'm going to look try. Although I agree with what your saying and I probably won't get anywhere. djnibz, what's wrong with the 6128 is that it isn't technically part of the plumbing qualification. It just touches on plumbing. I was told I would be fully qualified as a plumber which is wrong. The recognised qualifications for a plumber are the 6129 and the 6189. Yes you do have to be working but there are one or two training providers that find you the work placement to gain these qualifications properly. If you type in plumbing as a keyword on the city and guilds websiite, it brings up the relevant qualifications. The 6128 is not there!

 

[finley]

I reckon, if you could get enough of people together that have suffered the same lies through this NCS, and let NCS know, that there may be alot of bad press about what they have done to you, (NO COMPANY WANTS BAD PRESS), they may try and help??

 

[finley]

you will not of been the first and you will not be the last , alot of these style of colleges play on pepole like you all the time.

i assume you have signed some form of documentaion my advice is go see the citizen advice and see what they say but i dioubt youll get anywhere as the colleges do tend to have this wrapped up in written documentation rather then what the rep said or emplied verbally , which they no doubt will deny

Just wanted to comment on this, If the sales rep comes to your house, and tells you AT THE END OF THIS< YOU WILL BE FULLY QUALIFIED PLUMBER, CAN GO SELF EMPLOYED, THERE IS A SHORTAGE O FPLUMBERS, YOU CAN EARN 40 / 50 / 60 K, THE COURSE IS FOR EVERYONE, THE TRAINING IS TAILORED TO SUIT YOU, YOU WILL HAVE SUPPORT ALL THE WAY, and you then sign the forms, you sign on the facts you have just been told, so therefore have been badly mis lead.Lied to. And i would imagine, if you also had someone with you, when you were told these lies, that would go strongly in your favor, and also if there is enough people who were told the same mis leading so called facts, and it got taken to a court or such, then a pattern would emerge, and they wouldnt really have much of a leg to stand on?

 

[finley]

are city and guids aware that some approved training centres are selling there courses by conning people?

 

[fuzzy]

doubt theyd be bothered, summitskills are though

 

[Dumplumb]

Yeah finley well i've spoken to trading standards and they say I have a case as somebody was with me when I was fed this rubbish about being fully qualified, so fingers crossed there. I also might have a word with a few of the other students and see what they say. The only thing is, it still leaves me with the 6128 heating and ventilating certificate that I will posses. Can anyone shed any light on who would take this if not a plumber and what it is good for?

 

[REDSAW]

exscuse me why i wipe away my tears....
you give a typical example of going off half cocked,imo.
try asking who has a 6128?.

the 6128 c&g, nvq 6088 IS a full plumbing qualification.
although the former 6128 does not make you a fully qualified plumber on its own.

this qualification covers all that the 6129 does, minus the lead work (more or less) then focuses on heating systems and ventilation more than the 6129. so, if you want to be a heating engineer you do fuel systems earlier in the nvq 2. and can achieve gas pipe nvq also which aligns you to acs qual's.

can i fit wet systems, bathrooms etc = yes. have i got my gas cert's yes!!!!
can i flash a chimney= proberbly not.

have you been mis-sold a plumbing cert= definately not.
have you been promised to be fully qualified with the c&g 6128 on its own= youve been sold.
without a job you cannot do the nvq part that makes you employable.
it also covers domestic, industrial & commercial aspects and your qualification is awarded to what work you cover in the portfolio.
unless they have changed the course.?.

hope this helps.

 

[fuzzy]

i would not cal the 6128 a plumbing qual. If it was why would there be 2 plumbing quals? the new 6189 has no lead either but is plumbing. I do agree it is a related trade and unlike years ago has a dmoestic option it would appear which is even closer to plumbing, but not plumbing.

 

[Dumplumb]

Hi REDSAW. Thanks for the info (minus the sarcastic tears comment). I am in agreement with you about going off half cocked. I should have looked into it more, but when I was signing up to this course, naively, I genuinely believed that I would be fully qualified, because that is what I was told. Stupid I know. I'm not saying the 6128 is a useless qual, I'm just saying that everybody i've spoken to (including city and guilds) have said that it is a separate qualification to the plumbing. It is heating and ventilating as you know and I wanted the PLUMBING qualification. On the course brochure I have got it says PLUMBING COURSE when in fact it should say HEATING AND VENTILATION COURSE!!! But it's too late now. So what i'm trying to find out is, where does the 6128 put me? What area does it steer me towards? Plumbing? Gas?? What should I be doing next to help me towards employment?

 

[Dumplumb]

Hi fuzzy, yeah you're opinion echoes that of everybody else i've spoken to pretty much, including city and guilds. Any suggestions on what my next step should be in regards to obtaining further quals to help me gain employment, or at least a foot in the door. I just really want some hands on experience.

 

[jase158]

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-courses/5447-c-g-6128-nvq2-help.html

there is some useful information here.

I believe that you can progress onto the NVQ with your course, don't hold me to it, your best bet is to talk to new career skills about the way forward and what you will be getting out of it.
If you have recieved the 6128 and you are not going any further with these people then go to another centre and do it this way.
my advice. (to anybody who is looking at a training centre)
1. find out exactly which course you are doing, before you pay
2. read your contract
3. do not believe anything the sales people tell you, ask to see a tutor, do your research, go there unannounced, check they are real and not just set up for the day and dissapear tommorow.
4. Check they are registered with city and guilds.
5. check they are set up for a couple years with companies house, via website. (not just set up last week)
6. never ever pay anything there and then always have a think about it, ( had a chap come to my house, when i refused to do it straight away he said i obviously wasnt interested and that the training centre could not accept me unless I was serious)

Now mr dumplumb, your options are simple,
1. go back and do your city and guilds 6129
2. keep going with the 6128, the technical certificate is nothing really as long as you can progress onto your NVQ then you are fine, this is the main certificate. this is your driving license, the tech cert is just a provisional license really.
if you go to the centres then you will have to go self employed and get the work for your assessments, this is the only way, unless you can get an apprenticeship.
Do not believe what they say, they do not give you the jobs for your NVQ, they do not guarantee you a job after completion and plumbers do not earn 60,000 a year, (although a plumber friend of mine, earns over that, but he is very lucky as he has a big sporting contract)

 

[fuzzy]

Hi REDSAW. Thanks for the info (minus the sarcastic tears comment). I am in agreement with you about going off half cocked. I should have looked into it more, but when I was signing up to this course, naively, I genuinely believed that I would be fully qualified, because that is what I was told. Stupid I know. I'm not saying the 6128 is a useless qual, I'm just saying that everybody i've spoken to (including city and guilds) have said that it is a separate qualification to the plumbing. It is heating and ventilating as you know and I wanted the PLUMBING qualification. On the course brochure I have got it says PLUMBING COURSE when in fact it should say HEATING AND VENTILATION COURSE!!! But it's too late now. So what i'm trying to find out is, where does the 6128 put me? What area does it steer me towards? Plumbing? Gas?? What should I be doing next to help me towards employment?

it could lead you to several areas, thats up to you and your employer, if you dont have one then that is your first target after tech cert

 

[AlexGas]

• Anyway, I have now found out ( £5500 later ) that I will not be gaining the full City and Guilds 6129​

  
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  5.5K is a bit steep. Get yoursel on the NVQ2 if you can and go from there. I would not worry about the past, you need to move on. Always get 3 quotes in. You'll be fine.​

 

[fuzzy]

you will be getting a full C&G 6128. but its not a full qual

 

[manix73]

Hi.can somone tell me what is QVC level3 6189?is this NVQ ?thanks

 

[fuzzy]

you mean QCF? the 6189 is the new nvq diploma, replacing both 6129 and 6089

 

[Dumplumb]

Hi jase158. Yeah , wise words mate. Well since i've put so much time into the 6128, i'm just gonna finish it as i'm not far off now anyway. I'd like to do the 6129/6189 but it's just the money side of things that's stopping me. I think, depending on who you go with, it's about another £6000 of which I don't have at the minute. I might ring round a few local colleges to see if they can offer any advice, which is probs what I should have done in the first place hmm. Like you said, I may have to go self employed for the time being. It's just the confidence thing......unless your friend wants an apprentice ha ha! Cheers mate.

 

[Dumplumb]

Yeah thanks AlexGas. That's all I can do mate. Fingers crossed somebody will give me a chance.

 

[manix73]

Thank you Fuzzy.it s dificult to find somthing about QCF thx

 

[fuzzy]

qcf is brand new, centres are only just getting info

 

[Jim1]

Hi Dumplumb

Let me try and put this into some kind of perspective for you. The current 6129 is being replaced with the 6189, but not all centres are up to speed with the 6189 because C&G have extended the 6129 and 6089 until 31/7/12, so a lot of centres will still run this course until they have to change. The 6129 is broken down into 13 units, 12 theory and 1 large practical unit covering 60 assessments, then you have to go on site and complete the 6089 which is another portfolio of evidence. This needs to explained in detail when people register so you understand whats involved (and yes it does carry another cost). With both the 6129 and 6089 together, this gives a level 2 qualification.

The 6189 is broken down into 10 units to be carried out in workshop and 2 units on site. If you hold the 6128 tech cert it is transferable across to the new qual, but only gives units 1-8 because sanitation and rainwater systems have not been covered. You still have to go on site to complete the final 2 units which will give you the full level 2 qualification. If you can find a centre that runs the 6189 then you have a chance of completing your training to become a plumber. If you want to become a heating engineer only, the 6128 is still transferable without having to do the sanitation units and only 1 onsite unit is required.

The problem will be trying to find a centre willing to train you on the final elements, but good luck with your efforts, hope this helps

 

[fuzzy]

no funding for 19+ on 6129 though