Should wet follow gas

[macplumb]

just wonderd what your thourghts weren on this subject?
Do you think Plumbing should go the same way as gas, i.e ran by a body
must get the quals, id card ect.
give it some pros & cons.

 

[john.bell55]

I think it is going that way anyway, same as with Sparkys. With requirements of Water Regs and now the compliance onus is also on the user. The BPEC certification is a requirement if you want to self certify any notifiable work and you have to achieve "Approved Plumber" status. I am not sure if it will be run by a body like Gas safe, but if there is a way of getting more money from you, I am sure the Government of the day will think of some way
Cheers
Jack

 

[fuzzy]

I think it is going that way anyway, same as with Sparkys. With requirements of Water Regs and now the compliance onus is also on the user. The BPEC certification is a requirement if you want to self certify any notifiable work and you have to achieve "Approved Plumber" status. I am not sure if it will be run by a body like Gas safe, but if there is a way of getting more money from you, I am sure the Government of the day will think of some way
Cheers
Jack

i am sure they would love it to be fully regulated the problem is cost. they competent person schemes are ways of putting the onus on the installer but how does that stop cowboys really?
to have a full gas safe system for plumbing would be expensive and i dont think it will be done

 

[stevetheplumber]

eventually the certification,elf n saftey and training industries will have more employees than those actually working and the whole bubble will implode, hopefully
a friend of mine escaped from comunisn in the late fifties ,his hungarian , he said at that time for every man working there were 6 watching him to ensure he was working. Ring any bells ?

 

[unguided1]

just wonderd what your thourghts weren on this subject?
Do you think Plumbing should go the same way as gas, i.e ran by a body
must get the quals, id card ect.
give it some pros & cons.

It would end up like Gas Safe and Corgi, before.
we would end up paying thousands of pounds every 5 years plus, a couple of hundred pounds each year to be a member of an organisation that does bugger all for us, and being inspected by people who couldnt do the job but can quote regulations out of their backside.

 

[moony]

i think it should id quite happily pay the money on the registration and any courses if it meant cowboys were got rid, would mean more business in the long run.

 

[unguided1]

i think it should id quite happily pay the money on the registration and any courses if it meant cowboys were got rid, would mean more business in the long run.

Hi qplumb I am sure that if you want to volantarily belong to some of these costly organisaions then fine, but you have to realise that some of us who dont, are not cowboys, I believe in a fair price for a good job, and If I have to spend more money on different schemes and training then I have to charge more.

At present The averidge self employed plumber is charging between £150 and £250 per day if you start adding up more training schemes and organisations the price will be pushed even higher for legitimate businesses, allowing even more cheaper cowboys in to cock things up

 

[justlead1]

Hi Mac, A can of worms, great question. Knowing how to control the trade is beyond me and others over the last 50 years to my knowledge.
However what i have difficulty comming to terms with is the fact that having been involved in a modicum of gas work over the years and subscribed for 20 of them. I now find that because i have not paid my dues of late (Deregistered) the knowledge and experiance gained during my career has also been discontinued. If this is the way forward will educational qualifications like " O" and "A" levels not to mention degrees being rescinded if dues are not payed? And how can the plumbing trade be controlled by establishment with out some form of stelth tax.
Why take the responsibility away from the house holder? Let them make inquiries within there community , prior to selecting and instructing work to be done.

 

[fuzzy]

Hi Mac, A can of worms, great question. Knowing how to control the trade is beyond me and others over the last 50 years to my knowledge.
However what i have difficulty comming to terms with is the fact that having been involved in a modicum of gas work over the years and subscribed for 20 of them. I now find that because i have not paid my dues of late (Deregistered) the knowledge and experiance gained during my career has also been discontinued. If this is the way forward will educational qualifications like " O" and "A" levels not to mention degrees being rescinded if dues are not payed? And how can the plumbing trade be controlled by establishment with out some form of stelth tax.
Why take the responsibility away from the house holder? Let them make inquiries within there community , prior to selecting and instructing work to be done.

funny enough, GCSE's more than 5 years old dont count towards apprenticeshps, students have to do them again. I believe they call it lifelong learning, another way to keep you doing courses every 5 years. unvented and water regs now have a 5 year life such as acs. will plumb become the same?

i want to keep out non qualified from the trade, why should we accept non qualified? the argument is always, 'well some who are qualified are rubbish'. lets do away with all quals then hey?

 

[stevetheplumber]

i think it should id quite happily pay the money on the registration and any courses if it meant cowboys were got rid, would mean more business in the long run.

do you think 10 years of corgi/gas safehas acheived that. by there own admission there are a huge number of unregistered installers out there the more costs you put on registered buisness the easier it is for the cowboy to undercut

 

[wnjswozo]

no thanks,got enough regs,paperwork with gs, we have water regs,unvented,
so can do without it.

 

[unguided1]

I would like to say that right now renewable energies are going to be a nightmare if you are self employed and you want to be MCS accredited.

Typical costings to get relevant, training is 3 to 10 days training, days away from work plus the costs of training from £700 - £2000

Typical costings to join one of the certified bodies is £700 - £2000 for each technology, for example, solar therm, one tech, heat pumps, another tech Biomass, another tech PV, another tech, so for myself being self employed and wanting to be MCS accredited to do 2 technologies, heat pumps and solar therm this could cost me upwards of 5 thousand pounds, so how much do I have to charge my customers to get this money back.

[DLMURL="http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/Certification+Bodies"]The Microgeneration Certification Scheme MCS[/DLMURL]

I enjoy my way of working I have never wanted to be a specialist in one field of our trade I want to keep and need to keep my Gas Safe, in cases of installing byvalent systems. but the way things are going I will need to be spending around £5000 a year before I start paying myself.

 

[macplumb]

I fell realy lucky with renewables my old boss now teachers at our local collage and is having renewables installed. He has asked me to help and in return the collage will put me though the cource for free and it's weekend work so won't affect me to much with my other jobs.

 

[moony]

Hi qplumb I am sure that if you want to volantarily belong to some of these costly organisaions then fine, but you have to realise that some of us who dont, are not cowboys, I believe in a fair price for a good job, and If I have to spend more money on different schemes and training then I have to charge more.

At present The averidge self employed plumber is charging between £150 and £250 per day if you start adding up more training schemes and organisations the price will be pushed even higher for legitimate businesses, allowing even more cheaper cowboys in to cock things up

hi mate, i understand your views - but i am of the opinion, prices are driven down by the amount of not so much cowboys but untrained cheap plumbers out there... like for like bathrooms for 200 quid, central heating systems for 1600, some of the prices i have heard about is just ridiculous, and any governing body or scheme to take control of this would only be advantagous to someone who has done there proper apprenticeship, got there proper nvqs and proper qualifications and then registered for say 500, then maybe a yearly fee. I dont see why someone should serve a 4 year apprenticeship and someone do a 6 week short course and both be able to set-up and operate on an equal footing.

just my view matey.

funny enough, GCSE's more than 5 years old dont count towards apprenticeshps, students have to do them again. I believe they call it lifelong learning, another way to keep you doing courses every 5 years. unvented and water regs now have a 5 year life such as acs. will plumb become the same?

i want to keep out non qualified from the trade, why should we accept non qualified? the argument is always, 'well some who are qualified are rubbish'. lets do away with all quals then hey?

you have to do your key skills if its longer than 5 yrs since you passed your gcses - i got great gcses a's and b's, also as levels, but still had to take my keyskills with lads who didnt even take gcses. done now though only had to do it the first 2 years of apprenticeship

I would like to say that right now renewable energies are going to be a nightmare if you are self employed and you want to be MCS accredited.

Typical costings to get relevant, training is 3 to 10 days training, days away from work plus the costs of training from £700 - £2000

Typical costings to join one of the certified bodies is £700 - £2000 for each technology, for example, solar therm, one tech, heat pumps, another tech Biomass, another tech PV, another tech, so for myself being self employed and wanting to be MCS accredited to do 2 technologies, heat pumps and solar therm this could cost me upwards of 5 thousand pounds, so how much do I have to charge my customers to get this money back.

[DLMURL="http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/Certification+Bodies"]The Microgeneration Certification Scheme MCS[/DLMURL]

I enjoy my way of working I have never wanted to be a specialist in one field of our trade I want to keep and need to keep my Gas Safe, in cases of installing byvalent systems. but the way things are going I will need to be spending around £5000 a year before I start paying myself.

so you have to pay that fee every year ?

 

[unguided1]

I reckon that by the time that i have paid my annual fees to Gas safe, and whatever MCS accredition scheme I go with for each technology that I apply for, plus Gemserve, OFTEC, HEATAS, The increase on my public liability, plus any other scheme that wants to dip my pocket then I dont think I will be to far off it.

 

[justlead1]

In my opinion plumbing will go full circle, skilled knowledgeable people instructing / supervising labour to achieve compliance with regulations. One man bands in areas other than the dozen or so major cities in the country with struggle. In rural areas, individuals trading as plumbers need all the bells and whistles certificates to service their wide range of customers, but can not get the volume to accommodate the expenses uncured in getting certification. I have lived through the time where plumbing provided a great living at will. But now feel, the goose that laid the golden egg is being sucked dry.