shower pump

[mickqc]

hello, hope you can help.
pricing up a bathroom with a shower pump in an 800 quadrant shower.
The cylinder is on the landing with room underneath for the pump.
the header tank (not 50 gallons) is in the attic but only about 18 inches above ceiling joists.
I have done lots of bathroom installations but always stayed away from ones with pumps due to plumbers telling me of probs they`ve had.
can anyone give me any advise, what pump , think i would be better with a negative head unsure about pressure.
also where do you take the T off the cylinder for your input hot and do you take your input cold direct from the header tank.
thanks for help.

 

[kimbo]

Rather than explain check out the link a picture is better than a thousand words (Ithink thats what they say). The cold should be taken from theheader tank and it should be below the take off to the cylinder, that is so you run out of hot water before cold,otherwise you may scald yourself.

 

[mickqc]

any views on which salamander pump i would need.

 

[kimbo]

The more you pay the better the pump but are they likely to want to install another shower, get the basic one for one shower or if you want one that does 2 showers get that one personally I would go for the RSP50 it can deliver 40ltrs a minute and do 2 showers the ct50 will do one shower and 20ltrs a minute, both have 1.5 bar pressure.

 

[mickqc]

thanks.
it will only be feeding the one shower in the ensuite. the bathroom doesn`t have a shower.
i am to fit a new shower, tray and enclosure. any help on what thermostatic shower is best and would i need a deeper tray for the volume of water.

 

[kimbo]

As long as you use 40mm for the waste it shouldnt be a problem I have been fitting mira elements at a bout 155pds plus vat they are good value a good name and all the qualities of a more expensive shower. The only thing is you cant control the flow but they supply a flow restrictor. It is fully thermostatic.

 

[mickqc]

would i not be better fitting a normal mixer and not a thermostatic.
would a flow restrictor not reduce the pressure.
thanks for help

 

[WHPES]

No, thermostatic.

I have fitted plenty of Mira Element mixers. Good unit. Use flow restrictor as said.

Personally I reckon Stuart Turner pumps are better than Salamander. Have had far more bother with Salamander pumps than ST ones.

 

[mickqc]

never heard of ST pumps will look up today when i go to merchants. what is the help line like.
Are shower pumps as problamatic as i`ve heard.

 

[mickqc]

got a brochure on techflow pumps, anybody heard of these.
Shouls automatic air vents be fitted in the attic, also if the pump is directly under the cyclinder as its on a stand should i use 22mm or 15 ok.
thanks for help.

 

[mickqc]

what is a mira coda like with a shower pump.
anybody on whether i should get a negative head one looking at the ct50, its on the landing in an airing cupboard will it be too noisy?
thanks for help.

 

[PlumbRight]

Techflow pumps are cheap rubbish, if you fit one of these then it is pretty much guaranteed to fail, trust me I've tried and the pump was rubbish, gave a weak shower and failed within 6 weeks, no customer service and not helpful on the phone at all. Stay away.

Salamander make great pumps, very reliable and excellent service and advice, give their help line a call and they will recommend the right pump for your installation and also talk you through any fitting issues you may have. Once you have completed then register the installation with them and provided you have followed their installation requirements you can extend the warranty by a year totally free of charge.

Can't recommend them highly enough.

 

[mickqc]

thanks for that, emailed salamander and they got back to me saying to check the flow rate and how long it take to run a litre of hot/cold and 2 litres of mixed.
checked and it took 15 seconds for a litre of hot, so positive head i think.
was thinking of going with the c50, it mentions 1.5 bar, is this the max.

 

[mickqc]

after checking the storage tank i`m going to have to twin another one to the existing one that by my calc is only 25 gallon.
looking to twin another 25 gallon one or even a 50 but i don`t think it`ll go throught the loft access.
going to twin with 22mm just to make things a bit better.
Is a 1.5 bar pump more than what a good combi can deliver?
What kind of pressure does a combi deliver, is there a way of calculating this.

 

[mickqc]

any advise on twinning tans and would 2 x 25 gallon be enough.

 

[Spike295]

2x25 gallons sounds pretty good. If linking the tanks, keep the ballvalve & overflow in the same tank, i would try to use the existing cold feed to the cylinder as your link out of the 1st tank to your 2nd tank, if this proves difficult, cap it off close to the tank & take a new cold feed to your cylinder from the 2nd tank. This will ensure that water is flowing thru both tanks & no tank will be stagnant. You might say you could use your cold feed to the shower pump to stop this, but the shower might not be used as often as the hot water will be.

 

[mickqc]

thanks for reply.
was going to put new 2nd tank next to original in a train like fashion.
was going to keep everything in the first tank like it is feeding cylinder and just take one outlet from the second (new one) to feed the twin salamander shower.
i understand what you mean but this will be the only shower in the house so will get used at least once a day.
also just read somewhere that the pump has to be level with the bottom of the cylinder, was going to put mine underneath about 300mm below.
would this cause a prob

 

[Spike295]

See what your saying about the tanks, i would personally take the cylinder feed from new tank but if your sure it will get used often then i guess it will be ok, just be sure the tanks are linked together.
As for the pump, to be 100% i would phone salamander for their view...cant see a problem tho.

 

[mickqc]

just looking at salamander fiiting instruction and it says that should be linked with 22mm.
Also the outlets to the cylinder and pump should be taken from the opposite end of the tank to the cold inlet.
So may have to move the oulet to the cylinder to the second tank.
thanks for help

 

[WHPES]

Stuart Turner always for me. Had too many Salamander pumps leak. Also the Stuart Turner Showermate Eco is a quiet running pump, probably the quietest around.

Doesn't have to be exactly at opposite ends of the cold tank, as long as they aren't on the same side next to each other. No need to be pedantic

The main thing to remember is that the cold outlet for the shower pump must be slightly lower than the one for the cylinder (so hot runs out before cold does)

When you have two tanks linked you need to ensure that fresh water will flow through both tanks to prevent any tank from getting stagnant (I have seen some really nasty tanks without an outlet)

 

[mickqc]

thanks for that, if i put the the pump outlet in the new tank and keep the outlet for the cylinder in the old one this should stop that occuring.
When you say slightly lower how much are you talking about.
thanks

 

[PlumbRight]

Hi

Sound like that should be ok, just make sure that the tanks are linked with 22mm. If you have any doubts then call the Salamander help line. I spoke with a chap called Mike Oxley only yesterday with a similar question and he was very helpful.

Suggest the cold outlet is lower by approx double the diameter of the outlet. i.e. if you are plumbing the cold outlet to the pump in 22mm as you should then allow 50mm between that and the outlet to the tank. Make sure you do not put the cold outlet so low than you can drag any debris from the bottom of the tank into the pump. It doesn't matter who makes of pump you use, non of them will like debris being sucked into them will damage the seals in no time, in fact give the CWS tank a clean out if it is not a new one.

The previous gent clearl favours Turner pumps, however I certainly would not install the Showermate or their supposed ECO pump, its not continuously rated and the last thing you need is the pump cutting out half way through a shower because the thermal trip in the motor has kicked in. The only ECO thing about it is that it is 'cheap' but typically still more expensive than the Salamander CT50, which is continuously rated, comes with isolators on the hoses and is generally more robust and quieter. I read some nose test data on a forum some time ago and the Salamander Pumps generally measured quieter than any other pump listed, and that included Turners.

Its your choice, but if youhave already had good advice from Salamander then my advice would be to stick with them.

 

[mickqc]

thanks for that will be going with the ct50.
what do you think about the pump being slightly lower than the bottom of the cylinder.

 

[Spike295]

I've put them lower before & never gave me any hassle.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

going lower isn't a problem it's when you go higher. you then need a negative head pump.