I read through this old thread with interest. Certainly lots of the valves and fittings that we sell now don't compare favourably with those we sold when I started, back in the mid eighties.
Relatively speaking, some plumbing gear has got WAY cheaper. Some of it is better, some is worse.
A few months ago, we came across some archived invoices from 1972. I was surprised that endfeed fittings were selling for more or less the same price then as we sell them now, 40 years later. The quality was probably better - mostly delcop or nibco, but the relative price was way higher back then.
The day I started, in 1986, the special offer was a Chaffoteaux Celtic 220 RS combi, at £465 + VAT for boiler and flue and including a free Switchmaster 300 timeclock. Today we are selling an Ideal Independent 24 with flue and clock for £16 less. I don't know exactly what inflation has been since then, but I know that a 23 yr old trainee counterhand was on £90 a week, because I still have the old pay envelope. (Remember when wages came in cash on a friday in a little brown envelope?)
A combi filling loop (about £15 back then) was considered a luxury item. A common order with a combi was a pair of washing machine taps and a w/m hose for a makeshift filling point.
At the same time, we offered a cheap bathroom suite (low level pan, plastic cistern, 22x16 basin on brackets, 3mm bath, cheapo seat, acrylic head taps) for just under £150 plus VAT, and we sold loads of them. I could probably just about source the same thing at the same price today - problem is, no one would buy it, not because the plumber would reject the quality, but because the householder would reject the appearance.
Cylinders reached a low point about 10 years ago, with the so-called "medium duty" or "tiger" cylinders. I remember talking to a manufacturer at the time - an old fashioned coppersmith - and he could weep that his customers demanded such a low price that he had to make rubbish. I would hate to try to take an immersion heater out of one with side immersions - the boss is brazed onto a wall so thin that it surely must tear like tin-foil. Since part L came in, cylinder quality has improved a lot - walls are thicker, coils are longer, and the return rate is back to where it was 25 years ago.
I just looked up our sales on 15mm isolating valves. It doesn't make pretty reading.
2.5% heavy pattern
2% full-flow heavy pattern
95.5% cheap 'n' cheerful, guaranteed till the van gets to the end of the road.
On another thread a little while ago, I looked up the stats for brass-bodies, copper upstand b/e ballvalves. I think it was 1% of total BE ballvalve sales - the rest were all plastic.
I think that when a certain percentage of the market demands a lower price, and accepts the drop in quality, it no longer makes economic sense for even big brand manufacturers to invest in the top quality product. They are more interested in their competitive position, so while they may still be better than the very cheapest, since the standard of the cheapest has dropped, the standard of the best has also dropped.
Ray
