Silicone and rad valves

[w7r]

Hello all. Wonder if someone would be kind enough to offer an opinion. I'm coming to the end of having a loft conversion job done and have removed one of the rads to decorate behind it. Lockshield shut-off, TRV removed, decorators cap fitted and rad drained down I undo the valve nuts, and lift off the rad.

I was surprised to discover silicone had been used to cover the olives and the union rather than a bit of paste. I've attached a couple of pics for clarity in case I've used the wrong terms.

Is this standard practice, and why would you need to do this on a new installation?

TIA, Chris

 

[rpm]

Looks like LSX Leak sealant to me, not the way I would do it for the reason shown in photo #2.

 

[w7r]

Hi rpm. Thanks for the quick reply!

Looks like a bit of a lash to me, thing is I haven't settled the final bill yet as there a snagging list but I'm getting the impression corners have been cut.

a few examples.

i. brand new WC pan and CC cistern, the pan which had been cracked - they had smothered everything in silicone in an attempt to seal it - doughnuts, flush mechanism threads, the bolts that hold the cistern to the pan - as well as smearing the stuff over the freshly plastered walls rather than wipe off using a cloth - right pain trying to clean it up to decorate.

ii. No isolation of WC, wash basin or shower either near the appliances or the feeds into the loft - is that normal?

iii. The rad I removed I noticed one of the bracket fixing screws is just hanging loose in the plasterboard. The WC pan has some small white caps - these have been siliconed on with the stuff oozing out, cistern not fixed to wall behind - small things but it doesn't instill confidence - that's just stuff I can see who knows what else they compromised on. I've got kids and the last thing I need is stuff that's not been fixed properly!

cheers, Chris

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Any chance of a few pics of the bathroom?

 

[rpm]

White caps meant to hide screw heads, screws meant to fix into L shaped brackets under the pan to secure. Many people silicone pan to floor instead.

Cheapest quote was it.

 

[w7r]

Any chance of a few pics of the bathroom?

Hi ShaunCorbs. At work at the mo but will post a couple of pics later.

cheers, C

 

[w7r]

White caps meant to hide screw heads, screws meant to fix into L shaped brackets under the pan to secure. Many people silicone pan to floor instead.

Cheapest quote was it.

Hi rpm. Funnily enough it wasn't - smack back in the middle of the 5 quotes I had. They're a specialist loft company and what swung it was I'd used them a number of years ago and they were pretty good. They've changed they way they do things though and I think it shows.

I don't want to argue with them for the sake of it, which is why I asked whether the use of that silicone in the union is the correct way of doing things these days.

cheers, C

 

[rpm]

Hi rpm. Funnily enough it wasn't - smack back in the middle of the 5 quotes I had. They're a specialist loft company and what swung it was I'd used them a number of years ago and they were pretty good. They've changed they way they do things though and I think it shows.

I don't want to argue with them for the sake of it, which is why I asked whether the use of that silicone in the union is the correct way of doing things these days.

cheers, C

We`ve had many a debate on here about it, some say paste the olive and some say PTFE tape around the olive and some even said both! Don`t know if there are any water regs re the isolation valves (don`t do new installs) but at the very least it is good practise.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Normally iso on toilets and basins

And compound on compression for me as fittings arnt as good quality as they once were

 

[rpm]

Normally iso on toilets and basins

And compound on compression for me as fittings arnt as good quality as they once were

Was that debate in public or behind closed door? If in public then add a link so the OP can see.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Was that debate in public or behind closed door? If in public then add a link so the OP can see.

Think it was in the arms but will have a look

Found this one

Thoughts on jointing compound for compression fittings?

 

[Stanios]

Wouldnt really use silicone on any high pressure system simply because it won't hold. Also if silicone gets into TRV it will likely fail. Excess silicone and silicone in random places are one of those things you associate with amateurs

 

[Ric2013]

LSX on olives is fine in my opinion, though I can't see the point, and they used a bit too much. Silicone is not acceptable as not designed for potable water, so depends whether it was LSX or silicone.

i. Not acceptable. If the pan is cracked, silicone is not a long-term repair, though it may last a while. Dab of silicone between wall and pan prevents movement/rattle and is good practice.

ii. Shower manufacturer's instructions may require isolators, I don't think it's mandatory otherwise, but not certain. Water regulations do require isolation of any float valve eg WC cistern: it's the law. Isolators not strictly required on taps - most plumbers fit them, though I don't really see the point myself, particularly if they are not easily accessible.

iii. Loose screw not a problem so long as there are two sound screws on each bracket. Silicon to stick caps is often needed as sometimes fittings aren't as good as they should be, but I hope they have used screws as well as silicone to fix to floor. WC cistern should be fixed to wall - not always strictly necessary, but not fixing to wall is a bodge.

 

[w7r]

Thanks for the replies fellas - much appreciated.
I'd have thought having silicone potentially going round the system wouldn't be great - pump issues, blockages etc.

@ShaunCorbs I've attached a few pics as requested.

They've defo not fitted isolation to the WC or the wash basin - TBH I'd be happy if they just put isolators on the H&C feeds into the loft at least if I've any issues I don't have to turn all of the water off. As you can also see they've also siliconed the basin into unpainted plaster which means I'm left with a brown line - just as well I'm putting a splashback in there - although they not know that at the time.

So anyone think it worth me pulling them up on the points I raised?

cheers, C

 

[Scott_1979]

Thanks for the replies fellas - much appreciated.
I'd have thought having silicone potentially going round the system wouldn't be great - pump issues, blockages etc.

@ShaunCorbs I've attached a few pics as requested.

They've defo not fitted isolation to the WC or the wash basin - TBH I'd be happy if they just put isolators on the H&C feeds into the loft at least if I've any issues I don't have to turn all of the water off. As you can also see they've also siliconed the basin into unpainted plaster which means I'm left with a brown line - just as well I'm putting a splashback in there - although they not know that at the time.

So anyone think it worth me pulling them up on the points I raised?

cheers, C

seen far far worse. However if your not happy just be honest, most of things you raise are easily fixed. Screw cap is a bit naff but the overall look isn't bad

 

[ShaunCorbs]

not too bad overall but agree theres some snagging to do

get them to put blue and red lever valves in the loft
refit the toilet caps, or leave them off totally (i dont think they look too bad off just a pozi screw head)
that rad with the lsx on is it having a trv fitted? if it is i think the rad valve is on wrong way

nice tiling tho

 

[w7r]

Gents, thanks for all the feedback - really helpful.

Generally happy with the work but the details make a difference - and I'm a picky bugger!

@ShaunCorbs. The rad with the LSX does indeed have a TRV.

I'll insist on them fitting the lever valves in the cupboard below the loft so I can isolate. I just wonder if they'll come up with some excuse regarding water pressure - the house is served by a reasonable combi but that is being replaced later this year.

The tiler was the biz - really impressed with him. Not only a nice guy but obviously took a lot of pride in his work.

cheers, C

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Lever valves don't effect the pressure or flow as there full bore so no excuse except for added cost

Also I would keep the tillers number good tillers are hard to find

 

[w7r]

@ShaunCorbs - thanks for that - I'll add the levers to the snag list. As for the tiler - I've got his number - will be using him next time round.

cheers, C

 

[Stigster]

I think the product they may have used on the TRV connection is likely to be Plumba Joint - A soft setting jointing compound suitable for sealing threaded joints and also works well to seal olives. Geocel Trademate plumba sealer 50ml Clear | Plumb Center

It's actually a good product in my humble opinion but it must be used sparingly - which they haven't.

 

[Ric2013]

Rad valve orientation? Looks like a bi-directional valve so surely depends on what looks best/is less in the way?

 

[Ric2013]

TBH I'd be happy if they just put isolators on the H&C feeds into the loft at least if I've any issues I don't have to turn all of the water off

That's precisely my way of thinking. Though I'd want an isolator on the WC inlet too, ideally.

I'd have thought having silicone potentially going round the system wouldn't be great - pump issues, blockages etc.

If they don't use excess amounts, it'll be unlikely to move, probably less likely to move than the almost ubiquitous Water Hawk (or similar).

 

[Dkdc71]

Lever valves don't effect the pressure or flow as there full bore so no excuse except for added cost

Also I would keep the tillers number good tillers are hard to find

And good plumbers as well Shaun

 

[ShaunCorbs]

And good plumbers as well Shaun

Yes agree but these haven't so I wouldn't keep there's