Slight gas leak (half MB)

[ic24]

Hi My gas cooker has been disconnected because of a half MB drop in gas pressure. The gas test was carried out by a CORGI registered engineer. The landlord instructed him to disconnect my cooker because that is the source of the half a MB leak. I refused permission. The landlord contacted National Grid who disconnected my cooker.

I understand that a 4 MB drop in gas pressure is permissible. Half a MB is a very slight variation in gas pressure and think the landlord has over-reacted. Does anybody know if legally I can insist the landlord arranges to have my cooker re-connected?

 

[andyg0507]

half a mbar drop is permisible, was this gas leak on the pipework or the appliance itself?? not sure about the legality from a landlords point of view but to be fair a gas leak is a gas leak.

also why was the engineer not instructed to carry out a repair instead of just dissconecting the appliance??

 

[ic24]

The half a MB gas leak is from the cooker, not the gas pipes supplying the cooker. From what I have heard, gas engineers would not normally disconnect a cooker because of a half MB drop in gas pressure. This has happened because the landlord has insisted upon it. I wonder if legally I can ask for the cooker to be re-connected?

 

[kirkgas]

The half a MB gas leak is from the cooker, not the gas pipes supplying the cooker. From what I have heard, gas engineers would not normally disconnect a cooker because of a half MB drop in gas pressure. This has happened because the landlord has insisted upon it. I wonder if legally I can ask for the cooker to be re-connected?

the crux of the matter is how the 0.5mb leak was found, IF it was because there was a smell of gas reported at the appliance then it is right that it is disconnected, if the 0.5mb leak was found on a routine test for say the annual safety check AND the cooker is an existing appliance then it DID NOT NEED TO BE CAPPED, as you are allowed either 4mb or 8mb depending on the meter, with no smell or report of smell of gas etc, so give a wee bit more info on the background to the finding of the leak and i can confirm
the other side of the coin is that landlords get a pretty hard time for not complying with the regs and endangering tenants, this landlord seems to be over cautious to the extreme, however he may argue it is good practice to have no leak in his property, and who could argue against his safety stance,

 

[smillsey]

Poor old gas engineers in the middle of it though.

 

[franky]

You can understand the landlords point of few although he has to fix it or get you a new cooker. Just ask him what his plan is if your paying rent he should sort it out quite quickly

 

[Blackcatgas]

Why not Just get your cooker fixed?.

 

[mikegas]

If it was hes cooker i would suspect he would of left it. I could be wrong and he might just want everything spot on, but knowing landlords i doubt it. I wouldnt of thought transco would of been able to cap it if it was within tolerance and no smell of gas?

 

[kirkgas]

99.9% chance it is tenants cooker and NOT landlords or it would have been left as it is perfectly acceptable, how do you find a 0.5mb leak if there is no smell

 

[Bartdude]

how do you find a 0.5mb leak if there is no smell

With a blowlamp???

Is that an exam question???

 

[kirkgas]

With a blowlamp???

Is that an exam question???

aye as long as you havent refilled the rothy canister yerself

 

[tamz]

Hi My gas cooker has been disconnected because of a half MB drop in gas pressure.

I think the point is that it was the OPs cooker not the landlords. If it was? then in my opinion the landlord was well within his rights to disconnect it.

If permission to disconnect is refused and the Transporter is called out they won't care if there is a smell or not. If it is a reported leak they will test it then either make sure the appliance is disconnected, cap the meter or if that is still refused chop the supply. Reconnection is then at the expense of the tenant.

 

[mikegas]

If permission to disconnect is refused and the Transporter is called out they won't care if there is a smell or not. If it is a reported leak they will test it then either make sure the appliance is disconnected, cap the meter or if that is still refused chop the supply. Reconnection is then at the expense of the tenant.[/QUOTE]

I thought they only came out if it exceeded its tolerance or reported smell and permission to cap refused. Cheers

 

[tamz]

If it is reported as an escape the TSE just picks up the job as it is written or phoned to him. If it is for refusal to disconnect it's the same.
His job is to make sure it is made safe regardless and he won't negotiate on whether there is a smell of gas or not.
Test, acknowledge there is a drop and make safe. No arguments.

 

[mikegas]

cheers

 

[Puddle]

Think we are missing the point here

You can test the existing installation with existing appliances fitted and are allowed a drop depending on pipe and meter size, this is a all combined drop, which is why you have different drop allowances

The test was carried out a drop was found, fill in paperwork and away you go

However, there have been further investigations, the drop has been isolated with cooker, pipework and other appliances most have been tested separately to show this

Therefore cooker should not have been reconnected however it was, there is no rule that says a appliance by it self can have any pressure drop therefore we have a appliance connected to the supply that should not be, thus supplier quite within their rights to cut off

So in answer to op, no you have no legal recourse and your attitude is questionable at best

imho

 

[tamz]

Spot on Puddle

 

[tamz]

That is about it.

The 4mb allowable drop (if no smell) is with appliances connected and assumes there may be a small drop on the appliance(s).

If you decide to isolate the appliances (you don't have to although it would be good practice) you are then testing pipework which has no allowable drop therefore any faulty appliances need to be rectified or capped off.

Say you were fitting a hob to an existing supply already feeding a boiler and a fire. Test before carrying out the work and find a 2mb drop. This is acceptable if there is no reported smell of gas so you note the drop, fit the hob and retest. As long as the drop is no more than it was on the first test it is fine. Just inform the customer that there is a drop that is within limits and leave the decision to him/her.
That is why you should get a testing and purging pad, note the results and leave a copy with the customer.

If however, when finding the drop on the first test you decide to isolate the appliances and these are found to be at fault, they MUST be capped or repaired before you continue.
If you find there is still a drop with appliances isolated (pipework) you cannot fit the hob unless you (or someone else) trace the leak.
This may lead to a pi..ed off (but safe) customer (see above lol) who may then have no heating or gas.

At the end of the day it is your decision.

 

[kirkgas]

That is about it.

The 4mb allowable drop (if no smell) is with appliances connected and assumes there may be a small drop on the appliance(s).

tam i have deleted rest of your post as i agree with it, but the bit above confuses me, i agree with what you have written, but surely the fact that it is traced to the appliance, with no smell of or report of smell of gas, then this is the exact situation of microscopic leak(s) that is allowed under the 4/8mb rule and can be left connected, there is no statement that the up to 4mb leak has to be spread over several appliances, merely that there is existing appliance(s) connected rather than new?

 

[tamz]

Should have written 4mb drop with any existing appliance as you say.

X4

 

[REDSAW]

Think we are missing the point here

You can test the existing installation with existing appliances fitted and are allowed a drop depending on pipe and meter size, this is a all combined drop, which is why you have different drop allowances

The test was carried out a drop was found, fill in paperwork and away you go


However, there have been further investigations, the drop has been isolated with cooker, pipework and other appliances most have been tested separately to show this

Therefore cooker should not have been reconnected however it was, there is no rule that says a appliance by it self can have any pressure drop therefore we have a appliance connected to the supply that should not be, thus supplier quite within their rights to cut off

So in answer to op, no you have no legal recourse and your attitude is questionable at best

imho

i got pulled for that today at gas center. isolate appliance test pipe work. drop at appliance cap boiler or fix valve on 1mb drop at appliance.?

 

[kirkgas]

i got pulled for that today at gas center. isolate appliance test pipe work. drop at appliance cap boiler or fix valve on 1mb drop at appliance.?

that isnt the mandatory procedure as per IGE/UP1B, it may be someones preferred option, i have seen a procedure written on a new install that you isolate appliances then testy pipes only then reinstate alpiances then retest to confirm where your leak is, but it doesnt need to be done that way, if you test everything and find no leak all is well, if you test my way and find a leak you need to start isolating things to trace so you do it whatever way you want, on existing there is NO statement anywhere telling you you MUST iso the appliances, however if you do so you are bound by the results, so if i choose to leave existing appliances connested and find up to 4/8mb drop i record it and leave everything on, as long as no smell or reprt of smell of gas

 

[mikegas]

Think we are missing the point here

You can test the existing installation with existing appliances fitted and are allowed a drop depending on pipe and meter size, this is a all combined drop, which is why you have different drop allowances

The test was carried out a drop was found, fill in paperwork and away you go

However, there have been further investigations, the drop has been isolated with cooker, pipework and other appliances most have been tested separately to show this

Therefore cooker should not have been reconnected however it was, there is no rule that says a appliance by it self can have any pressure drop therefore we have a appliance connected to the supply that should not be, thus supplier quite within their rights to cut off

So in answer to op, no you have no legal recourse and your attitude is questionable at best

imho

so your saying if you decide to trace a drop in pressure even if its within tolerance you have to repair or cap whether its on pipework or an existing appliance. I thought it can be left if its on the appliance?

 

[ic24]

the crux of the matter is how the 0.5mb leak was found, IF it was because there was a smell of gas reported at the appliance then it is right that it is disconnected, if the 0.5mb leak was found on a routine test for say the annual safety check AND the cooker is an existing appliance then it DID NOT NEED TO BE CAPPED, as you are allowed either 4mb or 8mb depending on the meter, with no smell or report of smell of gas etc, so give a wee bit more info on the background to the finding of the leak and i can confirm
the other side of the coin is that landlords get a pretty hard time for not complying with the regs and endangering tenants, this landlord seems to be over cautious to the extreme, however he may argue it is good practice to have no leak in his property, and who could argue against his safety stance,

Thanks. The 0.5 MB drop in gas pressure was found during a routine gas check. There was no smell of gas. A gas test was originally carried out last March and an 0.5 MB drop in gas pressure was detected. The gas test was passed as safe. The CORGI registered gas engineer wrote on the form "permissible drop of half MB in gas pressure".

Then last November the gas company contacted me again (on behalf of landlord) to carry out another routine gas test. Again there was no smell of gas. This also passed. I was told there was still half a MB drop in gas pressure but this is acceptable.

However the gas company contacted me the following day and said they needed to carry out more tests. An engineer came and on carrying out further tests said the half a MB drop in gas pressure was caused by my cooker (this is my appliance and not the landlord's) and not the gas pipes. He wanted to disconnect my cooker. I refused permission because I had been told on two occasions half a MB drop in gas pressure in permissible and I had been given forms to say the tests had passed. The landlord then called the National Grid who disconnected my cooker. The National Grid will disconnect anything causing a leak even if it is only half a MB.

I think the landlord (local authority - council accommodation) is being too cautious or as you say may be getting a hard time for not adhering strictly to regulations. I am trying to find out if I have the right to get my landlord to re-conntect my cooker. It seems such a minor matter to me.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

safety first, don't you think 0.5 mbar over the minutes of the hour , over the hours of the day,over the days of the month it will build up enough to blow you up ,and the rest of your street !!!

What is wrong with you !!!!!


oh yes ,what is this slight leak of gas ???????