Smart Heating Controls

[GH1984]

Hi. I'm currently renovating a house I've just bought and have just had a Vailant EcoTEC Plus 832 boiler installed and am now looking at options for a smart controller and TRV's for each radiator.

All my electrics will be using Lightwaverf products controlled using an amazon echo, but my previous experience of Lighywave RF's TRV's is that they can be very noisy.

Is anyone able to recommend some products that would work with this boiler, has a stat and TRV's that work well together using the echo, and are quieter than the lighywaverf's?

I know there will always be some noise due to the motor/cogs, but want to try and keep it to a minimum as best as I can.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

I have Evohome, but I wouldn't say they are quiet. Although I barely notice them now.

 

[GH1984]

I have Evohome, but I wouldn't say they are quiet. Although I barely notice them now.

Thank you for your response. I take it that's the stat and the TRV's you have?

And they should work with the boiler I have?

Apologies for the stupid questions. I don't know a whole lot about heating systems.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Thank you for your response. I take it that's the stat and the TRV's you have?

And they should work with the boiler I have?

Apologies for the stupid questions. I don't know a whole lot about heating systems.

Yeah, although the 'Stat' as you refer to isn't really a stat as the temp is read at the TRVs. You can use it as a stat for the zone it is in. It's more of a control panel.

Yes it will work with that boiler.

 

[GH1984]

Yeah, although the 'Stat' as you refer to isn't really a stat as the temp is read at the TRVs. You can use it as a stat for the zone it is in. It's more of a control panel.

Yes it will work with that boiler.

Thanks again. That makes sense now you say that.

 

[king of pipes]

Drayton wiser is compatible but be aware Valliant boilers can be notorious of short cycling on these sort systems so make sure you find a GSI who know how to set the boiler parameters in the installer settings and can get your system functioning efficiently , there is a online forum for Drayton wiser do your homework before committing . Kop

 

[Knappers]

Is there something wrong with Valliant controls?

 

[king of pipes]

No is the honest answer 😊 the problems arise when not using their controls, homes are now getting more and more thermally efficient the requirements for 30kw + boilers for heating in the average home are not needed , hotwater production uses the highest amount of power, the problems arise when the kw output required for radiators is low the heated water has no where to go often the boiler modulates to their lowest kw setting and short cycle.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

No is the honest answer 😊 the problems arise when not using their controls, homes are now getting more and more thermally efficient the requirements for 30kw + boilers for heating in the average home are not needed , hotwater production uses the highest amount of power, the problems arise when the kw output required for radiators is low the heated water has no where to go often the boiler modulates to their lowest kw setting and short cycle.

They were never really needed in the first place, the error of most installers was oversizing boilers.

The new Vaillant controls are quite neat actually although stay clear of their own TRV valves.

If the boiler is set up and sized right there won't be an issues. The 832 outputs 24kw on heating and will modulate down to 5kw.

 

[Knappers]

I think a fair bit of the value in a brand like Vaillant is that you have a whole quality package available.
If cars came with or without wheels would you slap some on from a van with adapters to make them fit, or would you choose the wheels to come with it?
These guys aren't just getting any old boiler to market, they really-really know what they're doing!

 

[king of pipes]

I think a fair bit of the value in a brand like Vaillant is that you have a whole quality package available.
If cars came with or without wheels would you slap some on from a van with adapters to make them fit, or would you choose the wheels to come with it?
These guys aren't just getting any old boiler to market, they really-really know what they're doing!

Fair point mate i like to keep it simple as possible, mixing controls can be often be troublesome for the end user.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Fair point mate i like to keep it simple as possible, mixing controls can be often be troublesome for the end user.

Keeping it simple is definitely not using Vaillant Controls 😂 The old ones you need a degree in computer science to work. Can't go wrong with a EPH Combi Pack 4 these days. Auto, Man, Off buttons, easy. Bish bash bosh.

 

[king of pipes]

Yep your right there they were not the easiest to use, the new generation of controls are far easier.

 

[Knappers]

I have old VRC 430 controller and am still not confident If I want to change the temp ☺.
It's easy tho to get wrapped up in how easy it is to operate and I'm sure we're all selling the wireless access convenience.
The truth tho is, its a gimmick! The sign of a good control setup is how little it needs adjustment, the best controller would be the one you set and forget.
Altho I often use the apps and ease of use to sell a control package, what I'm actually trying to do is sell a controller that the customer will very rarely have to adjust (if ever).
If I fit a system and on the service a year later the customer has absolutely no idea how the boiler is working because they never had to think about it and never really noticed when the heating was on or off then I've done a good job.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

That's where I find EvoHome the best. Just set it and forget. One customer even said to me, I never even notice the radiators on! Other than changing the batteries out the radiator controllers it's pretty much a set and forget system.

 

[Knappers]

I think evohome type system with all rads on actuators is the pinnacle of domestic heating control but it's expensive and often completely unnecessary to the point of ridiculousness.

A well balanced system all but completely negates any benefits.
I think there's only three instances where going as far as full evohome makes any sense.
1: A mixed system with rads and UFH or electric etc.
2: Varied use zones like a home gym, office, therapy room etc that have very different time and temp requirements than the rest of the house.
3: As a toy to make you feel like the kiddy.

All perfectly good reasons!

The problem I have with controlls is a big lack of transparency and information on the actual functions and protocols that systems use. Honeywell, viessmann, Worcester I trust as you have access to proper installer setup.
All others I see as on/off control, possibly containing some undefined level of advancement or unhelpfull gimmick.

 

[Knappers]

My experience:
Worcester, Vaillant, Viessmann :
- go with manufacturers controls whenever appropriate

Honeywell, Tado:
- Have integrity as proper heating controls

Nest:
- Marketing company with technical functionality as an after thought to feed back into marketing.

Hive, Drayton:
Good 'smart' on/off switches.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

I think evohome type system with all rads on actuators is the pinnacle of domestic heating control but it's expensive and often completely unnecessary to the point of ridiculousness.

A well balanced system all but completely negates any benefits.
I think there's only three instances where going as far as full evohome makes any sense.
1: A mixed system with rads and UFH or electric etc.
2: Varied use zones like a home gym, office, therapy room etc that have very different time and temp requirements than the rest of the house.
3: As a toy to make you feel like the kiddy.

All perfectly good reasons!

The problem I have with controlls is a big lack of transparency and information on the actual functions and protocols that systems use. Honeywell, viessmann, Worcester I trust as you have access to proper installer setup.
All others I see as on/off control, possibly containing some undefined level of advancement or unhelpfull gimmick.

Completely disagree on that one. Evohome transforms a heating system, even if a system is balanced correctly the Evohome benefits are huge.
Not only have you got energy saving features you’ve got advance load scaling, warm weather saver, cold weather boost and hot water priority features.
Throw in that you can zone each room individually, then it’s a great system for energy saving and comfort levels. Yes you could achieve the same by setting trvs manually, but let’s face it whoever does that properly.
Fitted many systems, I’ve got it myself and whilst it is costly IMO it’s worth every penny and one of the best control systems on the market.

 

[Knappers]

Completely disagree on that one. Evohome transforms a heating system, even if a system is balanced correctly the Evohome benefits are huge.
Not only have you got energy saving features you’ve got advance load scaling, warm weather saver, cold weather boost and hot water priority features.
Throw in that you can zone each room individually, then it’s a great system for energy saving and comfort levels. Yes you could achieve the same by setting trvs manually, but let’s face it whoever does that properly.
Fitted many systems, I’ve got it myself and whilst it is costly IMO it’s worth every penny and one of the best control systems on the market.

I don't disagree.
I just think in most situations you could get 95% of the benefits for 45% of the cost

 

[hometech]

No is the honest answer 😊 the problems arise when not using their controls, homes are now getting more and more thermally efficient the requirements for 30kw + boilers for heating in the average home are not needed , hotwater production uses the highest amount of power, the problems arise when the kw output required for radiators is low the heated water has no where to go often the boiler modulates to their lowest kw setting and short cycle.

That is why you need to have a system capable of providing low temperature circuit flow.

 

[king of pipes]

That is why you need to have a system capable of providing low temperature circuit flow.

Agreed but you also need a well insulated thermally efficient home, then weather compensation works well . Kop