Smart thermostats and timers in multiple zones

[sj007]

Hi guys,

Hoping I can get some input on a subject related to an extension I am currently having done. My set up is that I have central heating in the majority of the house but as part of my ground floor extension, I am having a water pipe underfloor heating system fitted.

I have a megaflow tank (picture attached) and a potterton boiler (picture attached). My underfloor heating is a grundfos 2 zone manifold with Hetta aluminium pipes.

My question is on timers and thermostats. What exactly do I need? I have purchased 3 Google Nest E thermostats (Presuming I can use one for the main house central heating and water with the other two each controlling the underfloor heating zones). Is this sufficient for me to control my heating and hot water timers etc or do I need a dedicated timer? The reason I ask is because my builder has gone ahead and fitted a timer already (a "Lifestyle LP522") but he's confessed he doesn't really know much about smart thermostats and what functions they can/cant replace.

I do want to go the smart thermostat route, I understand the nest learning thermostat 3 can do more than the Nest E, I'd be happy to buy one of these if it removes the need to have a separate timer.

Appreciate any guidance!

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Aquarius]

Would it not have been wise to find out first what you need before purchasing? Anyway the nest e thermostat only controls the heating, not hot water.

 

[SimonG]

All getting a bit much with the smart this and the smart that.

Ask yourself why you want smart controls.

No need on underfloor heating as far as I'm concerned or on the hot water. Fine for the heating if you're not home ar standard and regular hours.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Any better pics of the boiler further away

 

[sj007]

Thanks for all of the responses guys.

Yes in hindsight shouldn't have assumed the Nest E was going to work.

The desire for smart controls is simply to save energy. I've got an office annex on the opposite side of garden from the house so want to be able to switch different parts of the house on/off via my phone to save me from forever going back and forth. I wasn't fussed about having my underfloor heating as two separate zones but the manifold has a two zone set up so my installer said we may aswell deploy it that way given the size of room.

I've attached a couple more pictures of the boiler.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Builder done the plumbing / removed the boiler ?

 

[Murdoch]

Unbelievable ...................

 

[Gasmk1]

that's a shocking bit of work

 

[Dr John Doolittle]

Make (or get a 9yr old to make for you) a controller system using a raspberry pi (zero or otherwise). You will need a few relays and temperature probes. The phone side is also open source. Whole job should cost no more than £30 if using the zero and maybe £50 if using a larger pi model. Then it can do what you want, when you want it and you won't have to limit things using commercial equipment. Plenty of "how to's" and videos. Just search

 

[king of pipes]

I think you have bigger problems than figuring out how smart stats are wired , boiler and underfloor heating needs sorting out . Kop

 

[sj007]

No the builder hasn't done the work but my contract is with him, he's sub-contracted the plumbing work. That corner will ultimately be a utility room, the manifold is pinned to the wall temporarily as the position might change slightly.

Might be a stupid question but what's the obvious problem I'm missing? I know it all looks untidy but it's largely temporary whilst the builder has been cracking on with other aspects of the extension.

 

[Chuck]

The desire for smart controls is simply to save energy.

You need to do your calculations carefully to achieve this. It's easy to spend a lot more on 'smart controls' than they're ever going to save in energy costs. The better the house is insulated, the truer this becomes.

When all things are considered, it's actually quite difficult to beat a traditional time switch, like the LP522, and a room thermostat in a sensible location. Particularly if, like me, you like to keep things you rely on for comfort or safety simple.

 

[Murdoch]

Hard wired room stats are a must if you are doing as much work as you are - sure you can get RF units BUT there is nothing more reliable than an old fashioned bit of cable

 

[king of pipes]

The boiler is far to high and how it's mounted on the wall with batten and thin sterling board is very poor practice , there shouldn't be any push fit plastic fittings used on the pipework within 1 meter of the boiler connections, the underfloor heating manifold would be better mounted on a ply panel you will get a better fixing as I have pictured below any decent electrician will be able to wire the system but i.would try and hard wire the stats rather than rely on wireless connection to your router . Kop

 

[Dr John Doolittle]

You need to do your calculations carefully to achieve this. It's easy to spend a lot more on 'smart controls' than they're ever going to save in energy costs. The better the house is insulated, the truer this becomes.

When all things are considered, it's actually quite difficult to beat a traditional time switch, like the LP522, and a room thermostat in a sensible location. Particularly if, like me, you like to keep things you rely on for comfort or safety simple.

I agree. Time to get rid of battery operated devices as well so you never run out of battery. I got rid of wifi and all devices are connected by ethernet cable...can't be doing with this new fangled "wireless" stuff

 

[sj007]

Thanks guys, very useful feedback, have relayed to my builder. He's advised the boiler was only fixed like that temporarily. He's also agreed to lower it down by a couple of inches.

I challenged him on the use of plastic push fittings rather than copper. He believes the house originally had plastic fittings, which I find hard to believe given it's a new build that's never been modified before now.

The manifold is also fixed like that temporarily.

Re the thermostats, I was planning to hardwire the nests next to the boiler, I just wanted to be able to control them from my mobile.

@kop , the neatness of your work puts my builder to shame. Thanks for the input, I have asked him to remediate.

 

[king of pipes]

Thanks guys, very useful feedback, have relayed to my builder. He's advised the boiler was only fixed like that temporarily. He's also agreed to lower it down by a couple of inches.

I challenged him on the use of plastic push fittings rather than copper. He believes the house originally had plastic fittings, which I find hard to believe given it's a new build that's never been modified before now.

The manifold is also fixed like that temporarily.

Re the thermostats, I was planning to hardwire the nests next to the boiler, I just wanted to be able to control them from my mobile.

@kop , the neatness of your work puts my builder to shame. Thanks for the input, I have asked him to remediate.

Dont be fobbed off there no excuse for shoddy workmanship temporarily fixing a boiler i find that hard to believe?

 

[Murdoch]

Dont be fobbed off there no excuse for shoddy workmanship temporarily fixing a boiler i find that hard to believe? I

surely the GSR on the job knows how to do this.

OP - speak directly to the person doing the boiler etc

 

[sj007]

Thanks for the replies and guidance, have been firmer on how it should be done and it looks like it's coming together better now....

 

[NewStart]

Make (or get a 9yr old to make for you) a controller system using a raspberry pi (zero or otherwise). You will need a few relays and temperature probes. The phone side is also open source. Whole job should cost no more than £30 if using the zero and maybe £50 if using a larger pi model. Then it can do what you want, when you want it and you won't have to limit things using commercial equipment. Plenty of "how to's" and videos. Just search

Thats OK until the Pi packs up in 2 years and you find the software you've written to run your heating doesn't work on the latest version of the operating system and 99.999% of plumbers have no idea what a Pi is or how it works. That of you're on holiday and your Pi crashes, your heating fails and your house floods.

 

[Vee]

Honeywell Evohome every time can solve all those issues.

 

[king of pipes]

SJ you can use your nest stats if you so wish , a three zone system would just need a three channel programmer to seperate the zones three separate zone valves one for each circuit the hotwater zone would be timed on the programmer it's pointless having a nest on this , set the timed program for each heatng zone it's on and off times in this and just use 2 of your nests as a stat you can still control each heating zone individually on your phone you will need 2 nest accounts but it's doable providing the system programmer is set to be on at that time, other than that you may need a relay or two installed to get over multiple switching but it can be done providing the electrician is competent in heating control wiring , I recently did a system with 5 nest stats one for each zone bit ott but the customer gets what the customer wants 😁 regards kop