Solar hot water & under floor heating

[ed209]

I have just moved in to a new property (chalet bungalow 3 bedrooms) and am considering installing a un-vented cylinder that I could add solar panels to at a later date
And underfloor heating that sits on top of existing floorboards and raises the FFL by approx 1"
I haver never done either of these so am looking
For advise and recommendation of makes for cylinder, solar & underfloor heating systems, boiler will be a NG system boiler I have the option to use a WB 12 Ri system boiler if its enough for heating & H/W
I do have a valid un-vented ticket (never installed one though only repaired a few) & am GS registered by the way
Thanks Paul

 

[Gray0689]

I go for kingspan solar
And use the HPnot DF
Unless your going top spec like acv most unvented cylinders are a much for much imho

 

[ed209]

please could you elaborate on HP & DF I know I'm going to look a fool when you do but what the heck!

 

[Gray0689]

please could you elaborate on HP & DF I know I'm going to look a fool when you do but what the heck!

Hp is hot pipe it has a temperature limiter on far better than DF direct flow for domestic situations

 

[Gray0689]

please could you elaborate on HP & DF I know I'm going to look a fool when you do but what the heck!

No fool mate my fault for not saying

 

[Ermintrude]

Not a solar buff but do do ufh. Have you looked at biscuit method for ufh? Offers higher thermal mass better insulation but not as dynamic- bigger the thermal mass the more sluggish but more even the system responds.

Basically lift up floor boards. Screw (don't nail) batons to sides of joists. Bottom of batton level with bottom of joist. Next select insulation , normally 90mm celotex will fit and leave 25mm between top if joist and top of insulation. Loop ufh heating pipes in and. Clip. Pressurise. Fill to top of joist with weak 10-1 building sand to cement mix. Red sand better as much more dense. Fix boards down. Ufh as normal.

Use your cylinder as a hex platform if possible as ufh flows are low temp you can always achieve 15c diff on exchange mediums. Basically solar or boiler heat and ufh takes return temp energy. when it leaves cylinder will be within 10% of cylinder temp so plenty of heat left in it. Ufh will strip away more and thus increase the rate at which thermal energy is transferred into primary fluid, so more efficient as system isnt forcing in energy. Heat transferred much more readily from hot to cool than warm to slightly less warm. T2 - t1 / r = rate of heat transfer!

 

[Gray0689]

Not a solar buff but do do ufh. Have you looked at biscuit method for ufh? Offers higher thermal mass better insulation but not as dynamic- bigger the thermal mass the more sluggish but more even the system responds.

Basically lift up floor boards. Screw (don't nail) batons to sides of joists. Bottom of batton level with bottom of joist. Next select insulation , normally 90mm celotex will fit and leave 25mm between top if joist and top of insulation. Loop ufh heating pipes in and. Clip. Pressurise. Fill to top of joist with weak 10-1 building sand to cement mix. Red sand better as much more dense. Fix boards down. Ufh as normal.

Use your cylinder as a hex platform if possible as ufh flows are low temp you can always achieve 15c diff on exchange mediums. Basically solar or boiler heat and ufh takes return temp energy. when it leaves cylinder will be within 10% of cylinder temp so plenty of heat left in it. Ufh will strip away more and thus increase the rate at which thermal energy is transferred into primary fluid, so more efficient as system isnt forcing in energy. Heat transferred much more readily from hot to cool than warm to slightly less warm. T2 - t1 / r = rate of heat transfer!

That's a good way to do it but I'd personally use an acv cylinder and take ufh from that with a solar coil even better results then

 

[Ermintrude]

Didn't want to give advice on solar cyl, as don't spec them out. So is there a secondary coil you can remove heat from cylinder with?

 

[Gray0689]

Didn't want to give advice on solar cyl, as don't spec them out. So is there a secondary coil you can remove heat from cylinder with?

It's a tank in tank cylinder

 

[Ermintrude]

So inner tank is heating fluid for ufh? External is DHW? ACV?

 

[Gray0689]

So inner tank is heating fluid for ufh? External is DHW? ACV?

Other way round
Google acv smart cylinders

 

[Ermintrude]

Know of ACV boilers is this the same?

 

[Ermintrude]

ACV of Glasgow?

 

[Gray0689]

Know of ACV boilers is this the same?

Don't know mate

 

[Ermintrude]

And I know almost nothing about their prize patent. Tank within tank!!!

 

[Ermintrude]

http://www.acv-uk.com/ ?

 

[ed209]

Hp is hot pipe it has a temperature limiter on far better than DF direct flow for domestic situations

Please can you explain what The HP & DE relate to is it the solar, cylinder or underfloor

The ACV Cylinder sounds interesting looked on website just trying to get my head round it!

 

[ed209]

Not a solar buff but do do ufh. Have you looked at biscuit method for ufh? Offers higher thermal mass better insulation but not as dynamic- bigger the thermal mass the more sluggish but more even the system responds.

Basically lift up floor boards. Screw (don't nail) batons to sides of joists. Bottom of batton level with bottom of joist. Next select insulation , normally 90mm celotex will fit and leave 25mm between top if joist and top of insulation. Loop ufh heating pipes in and. Clip. Pressurise. Fill to top of joist with weak 10-1 building sand to cement mix. Red sand better as much more dense. Fix boards down. Ufh as normal.

Use your cylinder as a hex platform if possible as ufh flows are low temp you can always achieve 15c diff on exchange mediums. Basically solar or boiler heat and ufh takes return temp energy. when it leaves cylinder will be within 10% of cylinder temp so plenty of heat left in it. Ufh will strip away more and thus increase the rate at which thermal energy is transferred into primary fluid, so more efficient as system isnt forcing in energy. Heat transferred much more readily from hot to cool than warm to slightly less warm. T2 - t1 / r = rate of heat transfer!

That sounds a interesting possibility, Id become a expert floor board lifter! you did lose me a bit in the last paragraph though can you give in idiot guide format

 

[chris watkins]

Use your cylinder as a hex platform if possible as ufh flows are low temp you can always achieve 15c diff on exchange mediums. Basically solar or boiler heat and ufh takes return temp energy. when it leaves cylinder will be within 10% of cylinder temp so plenty of heat left in it. Ufh will strip away more and thus increase the rate at which thermal energy is transferred into primary fluid, so more efficient as system isnt forcing in energy. Heat transferred much more readily from hot to cool than warm to slightly less warm. T2 - t1 / r = rate of heat transfer!

I get the gist but have you got any diagrams on how this works in practice, please.
Both system look interesting, the cylinder within a primary cylinder is the same type of thing as the old MHS Genini's, Gray.

 

[Jimbob]

Please can you explain what The HP & DE relate to is it the solar, cylinder or underfloor

The ACV Cylinder sounds interesting looked on website just trying to get my head round it!

Basically the HPs are better in domestic situations because you have relatively small stores of HW. Once store is upto temp, it then stops circulating solar. On direct tubes this can be a problem and can cause high stagnation temps up on the roof which can cause a few problems. The HPs have a limiter (think they have phials that retract) so stagnation temps are usually kept under control. Iv got these on my place and have had no issues at all in the past 2 years. Only downside to hp, is reduced output per m2 I believe.

 

[Ermintrude]

Please can you explain what The HP & DE relate to is it the solar, cylinder or underfloor

The ACV Cylinder sounds interesting looked on website just trying to get my head round it!

Cylinder stores your heat till you need it. Basically will find a schematic