Speed fit reducer disaster

[Specren]

Hi guys..... and girls if we have some, good morning to all of you.

Last week, I had a sh*t day.
I plumbed in a whirlpool bath and used speedfit pipe and connectors. Brilliant,

Use these all the time as ive been bathroom fitter for many years.

However, massive issue accurred.

Using two 3/4 tap connetor flexi with a 22 compressionon on the end, with a 22 to 15 speedfit reducer inserted and tightened.

Left it like this all day live , with no issues.

Customer called me and said the Cold speedfit reducer had blown out of the compression end of the flexi.

This being a balanced thermo stored water system sent water everywhere.

Question. Why did this fitting get blown off .

1. Fitting securely inserted.
2. Pushed in and olive and nut done up tight.

I could understand a weeping leak but not both hot and cold speedfit reducers being blown off.

First one happened in the morning

Then the second one on the hot side blew off as well.

Never had this this happen before.

Can you guys.........and girls shed any light. Lucky the water went straight though the ceiling through the recess light fitting saving the plasterboard ceiling.....phew. ruined the laminate in the utilty though.

 

[Riley]

What insert did you use

 

[Riley]

What insert did you use

Sorry just read this again you put the reducer straight into the compression joint?? Why not just use the 3/4-15mm tap connectors

 

[Scott_D]

Was the correct olive used?

 

[Specren]

Sorry just read this again you put the reducer straight into the compression joint?? Why not just use the 3/4-15mm tap connectors

I didn't have these to hand at the time. However, that's what i then replaced them with.

 

[Specren]

Was the correct olive used?

I thought at first they were brass, but on inspection they were copper. When you say correct olive , is there a prefrence on performance with reducers.?

 

[oz-plumber]

Get onto the Manufacturers of the fittings and ask them.
I hope you've taken plenty of pics - you may need them.

I hope for your sake what you've done is Legit....because if it's not, you may be up for the repair costs

 

[Scott_D]

Can’t remember which but yes it should be brass or copper for push fit pipe.
The manufacturers instructions will tell you.

 

[Deleted member 96286]

My one and only blow off from a push fit connection was a flexible tap connector connected to a bath tap and the compression end connected to 22mm speed fit pipe. I used a copper olive that was tightened properly and the correct insert into the pipe. I was at a total loss of why this happened, but since then I've never used a compression fitting on Speed fit pipe and will only use their plastic fittings.
On another note, I've noticed that the price of Speedfit has come right down and I have also noticed a minor change in their fittings. The collet plastic ring is now grey instead of blue and the fittings seem to need more force to push them home.

 

[Chuck]

Did you do a pressure test?

https://www.johnguest.com/wp-conten...umbing-Trade-List-Z2105-19-0219-NoPrices2.pdf

"On completion of the plumbing and heating system it is essential that system checking and a hydraulic wet test takes place. Connections to boilers, radiators and sanitary ware should first be capped or plugged. Testing Should be carried out at 2 bar for 10 minutes followed by 10 bar for 10 minutes. This testing combined with other relevant checks, should reveal most system problems. Any components within the system not designed to take these pressures should be disconnected."

The same booklet gives a number for the JG technical advice line and also lists problems. E.g.

"Problem : The fitting has blown off the pipe. Fitting is missing the collet, the pipe insert is still inside the fitting after the pipe has come out.

Identification : If this happens on first fix, the most likely reason is that the pipe has not been fully inserted into the fitting, up to the pipe stop, and the system has not been pressure tested.
If the collet (gripping device) is missing everything will blow out. If the collet is there and the pipe support is still inside the connector but the pipe has still blown out, this means that full insertion had not been accomplished."

 

[Deleted member 96286]

Did you do a pressure test?

https://www.johnguest.com/wp-conten...umbing-Trade-List-Z2105-19-0219-NoPrices2.pdf

"On completion of the plumbing and heating system it is essential that system checking and a hydraulic wet test takes place. Connections to boilers, radiators and sanitary ware should first be capped or plugged. Testing Should be carried out at 2 bar for 10 minutes followed by 10 bar for 10 minutes. This testing combined with other relevant checks, should reveal most system problems. Any components within the system not designed to take these pressures should be disconnected."

The same booklet gives a number for the JG technical advice line and also lists problems. E.g.

"Problem : The fitting has blown off the pipe. Fitting is missing the collet, the pipe insert is still inside the fitting after the pipe has come out.

Identification : If this happens on first fix, the most likely reason is that the pipe has not been fully inserted into the fitting, up to the pipe stop, and the system has not been pressure tested.
If the collet (gripping device) is missing everything will blow out. If the collet is there and the pipe support is still inside the connector but the pipe has still blown out, this means that full insertion had not been accomplished."

If you're only doing a limited amount of push fit connections to the existing plumbing which is most likely to be copper, it's not feasible to pressure test a few fittings. Anyway, they should be capable of doing what they were designed for and hold a watertight connection on domestic plumbing.

 

[Jones82]

I would look to the flexi tap connectors, are they shallower than normal?

I've used hep20 reducers into tap connectors many times without issue. I always firmly tighten the olive then unmake the fitting, ptfe the olive and remake the joint.

Previous poster could be onto something with the quality of speedfit fittings. Perhaps the reducers aren't designed to be used in compression fittings or as I said the flexi tap connector is slightly different. Alot of cheap flexi have appeared on the market in recent years.

Good luck, happens to the best of us.

 

[Sharp Point]

Did you do a pressure test?

https://www.johnguest.com/wp-conten...umbing-Trade-List-Z2105-19-0219-NoPrices2.pdf

"On completion of the plumbing and heating system it is essential that system checking and a hydraulic wet test takes place. Connections to boilers, radiators and sanitary ware should first be capped or plugged. Testing Should be carried out at 2 bar for 10 minutes followed by 10 bar for 10 minutes. This testing combined with other relevant checks, should reveal most system problems. Any components within the system not designed to take these pressures should be disconnected."

The same booklet gives a number for the JG technical advice line and also lists problems. E.g.

"Problem : The fitting has blown off the pipe. Fitting is missing the collet, the pipe insert is still inside the fitting after the pipe has come out.

Identification : If this happens on first fix, the most likely reason is that the pipe has not been fully inserted into the fitting, up to the pipe stop, and the system has not been pressure tested.
If the collet (gripping device) is missing everything will blow out. If the collet is there and the pipe support is still inside the connector but the pipe has still blown out, this means that full insertion had not been accomplished."

The pressure testing procedure has changed, it use to be 2 bar for 10 minutes, then 10 bar for 2 minutes.

 

[JCplumb]

Can you even put inserts into a 22/15 reducer spigot?
I'm guessing you used a male/female type where there is a 15mm socket and a short length of 22mm plastic.
I never use brass compression onto plastic, I've seen others do it and just don't like or trust it. In my mind the olive will cut into the plastic to get a good seal which can't be good.
I'd go from the flexi compression into a short length of 22mm copper, then use a female/female JG reducer onto the 15mm plastic pipe.
Or as mentioned above, 3/4-15mm flexi, but even then I'd go onto a short length of 15mm copper and use a JG coupler onto the plastic.
Saying that, I'd only do the above if I was connecting onto plastic, copper all the way if possible.

 

[Chuck]

The pressure testing procedure has changed, it use to be 2 bar for 10 minutes, then 10 bar for 2 minutes.

Must be a long time ago. AFAIK, the JG instructions have been the figures I quoted since at least 2010.

 

[Rightjob1]

Iv had the same issue with copper olives onto brass reducers.
I always put a piece of pipe in now

 

[johnduffell]

I've (for DIY) had some trouble with weeping compression joints onto plastic (copper olive, correct insert) so I avoid where possible and use a length of copper into the next speedfit connector, it's easy enough and the speedfit connectors handle copper no trouble.

Personally I think speedfit had to "allow" compression connections otherwise noone would buy it, but it's not ideal, a bodge at best, wheras the speedfit couplers are designed for the purpose.

 

[bcrepairs]

Did you check that the seals were okay?