Starting on the self employed route, advice please

[Paul Cockhill]

Hi

I have finished my City and Guilds 6128 technical certificate in general plumbing skills and unvented heating systems. I am planning on going self employed and have already done a few jobs for friends/family and a couple of professional jobs. Can anyone point me in the right direction in the following

1. Tools, I have the basic tool set from the course but is there anything you would recommend I definately need?

2. Liablility Insurance, I will try the insurance recommended on this site but does anyone have any other recommendations, through professional plumbing bodies?

3. I was thinking of trying to aline myself to a local recommended large plumbing firm. Then if there were jobs I felt I could not handle I could recommend them and maybe get a recommendation fee? Do you think that might work? Also they might forward me some small jobs they felt would not be worth their while?

4. I do not have a van but have a car to get about in. I thought I would start small and build up slowly before investing in a van? is this sensible or should I change my car for a van?

5. I live in the Bath/Bristol area. Does anyone know what is the best way to go about costing out for jobs? Are their any guides, a half day or day rate?

Any other advice would be gratefully appreciated

thanks

Paul

 

[WHPES]

Do you have prior plumbing experience? If not, you will need to start off small and work up. Do you know any plumbers you can call on for advice when you need it? You will often encounter difficult or unusual situations which bear no relevance to the textbooks.

1, 15mm pipeslice, 22mm pipeslice, 28mm pipeslice, mini adjustable pipeslice (8mm - 18mm), pump pliers (push button ones are best), footprint wrench, stillsons, set of good quality adjustable wrenches (including 18" one for sink backnuts etc)), pincers, pliers, mole wrench, hacksaw with the 3 different pitch blades, junior hacksaw, hacksaw blade holder for small gaps, round file, flat file, emery cloth, wire brush, metal detector/cable finder tool, small spirit level, long spirit level, solvent cleaner, rags, mapp gas type auto blowtorch (Bullfinch / Rothenberger / Benzomatic), tap reseating tool, 15mm, 22mm and 28mm wire brush for cleaning the inside of copper fittings, plastic pipe cutters (decent quality), slip stone for resharpening tools, 110v SDS (or cordless) drill and bits, 1m long 16mm bit for drilling holes in walls for outside taps, transformer (if you go corded), jigsaw and blades (include a tile sawing jigsaw blade), hand saw, Boss White, Hemp, Water Hawk, Hawk reinforcing fibre, decent quality battery combi drill and spare battery. Lots more I haven't got time to list. I also have the Kopex pipe prep tools as these are lovely time saving devices. Don't forget a stock of fittings, and don't forget to get 3/4" to 22mm copper fittings and 3/4" olives which are essential if you need to connect any compression fittings to 3/4" pipe as 22mm olives won't work properly. If you are going to do tiling, you need a whole lot of other kit as well.

2, They NFU Mutual tradesmans insurance - I found the best deal with them

3, No harm in trying but do you know anyone or have any friends who have plumbers as friends. You may get some occasional work with them as an assistant on a larger job. You won't get a fee for forwarding work, and don't ask for it, but you will get goodwill. They may forward you some small jobs in return but don't expect them to recommend you as it would be their reputation at stake in doing so.

4, It's up to you. I have a car and a van we share between the two of us. I know a well established guy who only has an estate car and a trailer if he needs to transport large items.

5, You'll need to start off a bit cheaper than the competition to get your foot in the door, and do silly small jobs the larger companies won't touch such as replacing awkward bath taps, changing washers etc. Be prepared for tight spaces and fiddly work. If you do these jobs well, the customers will pass your name on which is the best form of advertising you can get. If you have been trained in tiling, great. If not I suggest you get some training. This will help you get known and get some extra work. Don't attempt tiling unless you have been properly trained as a poor job or loose tiles is negative publicity. What you think may be OK may well not be.

Get to know a joiner and an electrician you can call on when you need their services.

 

[crafty]

city and guilds 6128? i think mines a 6129 is that a typo? or is there two courses?

sorry i can' help with the questions, i in the same boat as you, but looking for a junior plumbing position to learn my trade.

 

[Renewable M]

We found that the federation of small businesses to be worth their weight in gold. Its a couple of hundred quid to join and they offer free banking with the cooperative, insurance etc etc and also brilliant free legal advice. Even stuff like terms and conditions for your invoices.

Best £200 we ever spent. Day one when we started our new renewables business we joined up.

Good luck, hope you do well.

 

[WHPES]

More tools - Box spanner set for taps (bath, basin and monobloc) PLUS a 10mm box spanner for Hansgrohe taps (who like to be different) not normally included in the tap set, tap wrench, circular holesaw kit, padsaw, wood chisels and mallet, rubber mallet, lump hammer, bolster chisel, masonry chisel, claw hammer, ballpein hammer, immersion heater wrench, dustpan and brush, dust sheets, bag of 100 15mm olives, bag of 22mm olives and 10 28mm olives (you can save and reuse standard compression fittings as you find them).

Save a few short lengths of the different alkathene pipe , old and new, as you come across it and cut narrow rings off it - you will find these are excellent for helping to centre bath and basin taps where the holes are much larger than the tap stems. 1" black alkathene is excellent for bath taps. Obviously the rings need to be thinner than the thickness of the bath or basin.


As far as spares go, get a tub of assorted end feed copper fittings from Screwfix or similar, and buy some compression fittings. The most common ones you will need are elbows, straights and equal tees. You can get a few of each unequal tees. Get a few street elbows too - these can be very useful where space is tight. Get 1/2 a dozen 28mm elbows, tees and straights to get you going - you can get more later. Choose one brand of plastic pipe and stick to it (I like Hep2O). 15mm service valves, a couple of 22mm service valves (usually used on the hot bath tap).

Pick up a couple of 20mm and 25mm alkathene pipe straight connectors plus a couple of Philmac metric / imperial alkathene fittings (for connecting to the old type black alkathene pipes - universal so you don't need to hold all the different size adaptors)

Bag of 15mm, 22mm and 28mm pipe clips, box of 50mm and another box of 75mm brass screws for fixing WCs and cisterns (these can be expensive so look on the internet for the best price), pack of small and another of large white plastic screw cover caps from Screwfix (for fixing WCs etc), box of standard zinc plated screws in assorted sizes, and ditto for rawlplugs, pack of plasterboard rawlplugs.

Rigger gloves, rubber gauntlets, safety helmet, safety goggles, earplugs, first aid kit for car, soldering mat to protect surrindings from heat (or you can use old roof slates like how I was taught), scraper, metric ball end hex key set, imperial ball end hex key set, torx hex key set, good set of flat, pozi and philips screwdrivers, ratchet socket set.

Another thing I find is worth its weight in gold an you DEFINITELY need when starting out is the Holdtite plumbers repair boxes. They have all the washers you are ever likely to come across and there are 5 kits - rubber / fibre washers, tap washer kit, ball cock washer kit, standard o ring kit and metric o ring kit. You can get them from toolstation.

Also useful are parts organiser boxes. I have one ech for for copper fittings, compression fittings, Hep2O fittings, screws, olives etc, nails, brass screws, nuts and bolts, etc etc.
............. the list goes on and on the more I think about it!

 

[Renewable M]

There are lots of plumbers and even some heating engineers doing an excellent job beyond compare.

Have you though of doing your solar BPEC for example and making your way in renewable energy?

You will never touch a grubby toilet, outside tap or filthy sink trap, that's for sure.

Dont get me wrong though, it's no easier than any other route in plumbing and heating...... which is why at 22:39 I am still at my desk trying to get the quotes out before christmas for our installers.

 

[Paul Cockhill]

Hi and Happy New Year

Thank you everyone for your valuable advice about what tools I need, I have already gone out and updated my toolbox.

A couple of things

1. Does anyone have any recommendations on a good cordless drill, At the moment I have a Draper 18v cordless/combi hammer drill but I feel I should have something more powerful. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

2. Thanks to Renewable M and WHPES for your advice and detailed knowledge on tools. Renewable M, I am very interested in going down the renewable route and am looking at doing a BPEC renewable course. Can you recommend any good books for background knowledge. I am looking for something reasonably technical but with good diagrams.

regards

Paul

 

[WHPES]

Cordless drill - You need something powerful and reliable enough, which doesn't keep going flat all the time. My favourite tools are Makita and I have the 14.4v combi drill 8434D. 3.0AH NiMH batteries (2 charged batteries last for all but the longest of jobs and I only need a corded drill for drilling large holes in masonry.) You will find that the performance from the 14.4v Makita will be better than a higher volt Draper tool, which is primarily aimed at the DIY market.

Look out for special offers at Cromwell Industrial Tools UK: Discount Prices For Power Tools, Hand Tools and Cutting Tools - Free Next Day Delivery, NoLinkingToThis - Power Tools, Electrical, Plumbing Supplies & more and the likes.

A friend has just bought the new Milwaukee 14.4v combi drill and says it knocks spots off the Makita equivalent. IMO Hilti are overpriced for combi drills.

The OFTEC book on Solar Heating is good. Tells you all you need to know about Solar design and installation. You can buy it from Oftec Direct 0845 6585080, £29.50 to a non-registered technician.

If you're setting up your own business, contact BusinessLink - loads of free info, free seminars and advice. Invaluable.

Other tools I seem to use a lot of these last few weeks are Bailey rod kit (the lockfast type which can't come undone in a drain), plus all the end attachments (plunger, wheel, worm screw, drop scraper, brush etc.

 

[adrianfs1]

i do all my work out of a car and nobody bats an eyelid, i just have to have large items delivered

 

[alder]

Hi everyone this is my first post
I use a picasso with the back seats removed and I have started a handyman business. Does me fine and tools I buy as I need them but for plumbing spares I carry tap valves, torvec valves for toilets and universal ball valves, Full set of O rings metric and washers rubber nylon and fibre. I carry all the pushfit bends, pipe inserts, pipe stoppers etc and always keep some flexi tap connectors with isolators. Plumbing tools I have managed so far with a tap spanner, couple of different adjustables, mole wrench, pipe wrenches large and small, pipe cutters (plastic and copper), spare pipe (plastic, copper and chrome) and a set of tommy bars is a must.

I got a a million quid liability insurance from simply business

Good luck

 

[stevetheplumber]

exspesive but good is a 24v sds drill ive got a bosch one its probably seven years old still using its original batteries will drill upto 25 mm in brick no problem ive even used it to core up to 40mm and the sds drill bits last for ever that and a small battery drill will do most things screwfix do a 12v makita set around a ton drill and drill driver
for any serios work sds is so much better than using a chuck

 

[REDSAW]

screwfix do a 12v makita set around a ton drill and drill driver
for any serios work sds is so much better than using a chuck

they do a dewalt 18v combi aswell for £100, hmm, shall i or shant i?.

 

[alder]

...and you can get an sds chuck converter so that you can use your 'normal' drill bits.

 

[WHPES]

I bought a Bosch 24v SDS hammer from a guy In knew who retired 4 years ago for £25. Was old then and still works a treat despite regular use. One of the batteries is held together by tape but still holds excellent charge.

 

[jsc]

If most of your work was domestic would corded power tools suffice ? There does seem to be a big difference in price for corded/cordless.
...opps just had a thought, What does anyone think of AEG tools they seem quite keenly priced.

 

[WHPES]

Its up to you, bear in mind you need to get 110v corded tools plus a heavy transformer to lug about if you ever plan on doing any work on building sites.

IMO, for someone starting out, get a cordlless combi drill and a corded SDS with transformer. You won't need the SDS drill that often for most jobs so you can live with the hassle, but a corded small drill is a pain in the butt plus a cordless combi does screwdriving and impact as well as just drilling holes. You DEFINITELY need a mechanical means of driving screws in your job.

AEG aren't as good as they used to be (so I am told by my joiner who is a power tool buff). He likes Bosch (the blue cased tools - the green bosch tools are the bottom end for DIY).

Personally, I would buy the best combi drill you can afford as it is one of your most important tools and will affect your overall work speed and efficiency, especially making holes in masonry for anything from pipe clips to shower screens.

 

[Plum Bob 66]

This is great WHPES, I thought there was a few more things I needed to get !

One thing I did buy that I have found was invaluable was a wet dry vac, invaluable for draining down toilet cisterns, pans, cleaning up spills quickly etc. Mine was £45 from screwfix. Money well spent an speed the job up

Plum Bob 66

Do you have prior plumbing experience? If not, you will need to start off small and work up. Do you know any plumbers you can call on for advice when you need it? You will often encounter difficult or unusual situations which bear no relevance to the textbooks.

1, 15mm pipeslice, 22mm pipeslice, 28mm pipeslice, mini adjustable pipeslice (8mm - 18mm), pump pliers (push button ones are best), footprint wrench, stillsons, set of good quality adjustable wrenches (including 18" one for sink backnuts etc)), pincers, pliers, mole wrench, hacksaw with the 3 different pitch blades, junior hacksaw, hacksaw blade holder for small gaps, round file, flat file, emery cloth, wire brush, metal detector/cable finder tool, small spirit level, long spirit level, solvent cleaner, rags, mapp gas type auto blowtorch (Bullfinch / Rothenberger / Benzomatic), tap reseating tool, 15mm, 22mm and 28mm wire brush for cleaning the inside of copper fittings, plastic pipe cutters (decent quality), slip stone for resharpening tools, 110v SDS (or cordless) drill and bits, 1m long 16mm bit for drilling holes in walls for outside taps, transformer (if you go corded), jigsaw and blades (include a tile sawing jigsaw blade), hand saw, Boss White, Hemp, Water Hawk, Hawk reinforcing fibre, decent quality battery combi drill and spare battery. Lots more I haven't got time to list. I also have the Kopex pipe prep tools as these are lovely time saving devices. Don't forget a stock of fittings, and don't forget to get 3/4" to 22mm copper fittings and 3/4" olives which are essential if you need to connect any compression fittings to 3/4" pipe as 22mm olives won't work properly. If you are going to do tiling, you need a whole lot of other kit as well.

2, They NFU Mutual tradesmans insurance - I found the best deal with them

3, No harm in trying but do you know anyone or have any friends who have plumbers as friends. You may get some occasional work with them as an assistant on a larger job. You won't get a fee for forwarding work, and don't ask for it, but you will get goodwill. They may forward you some small jobs in return but don't expect them to recommend you as it would be their reputation at stake in doing so.

4, It's up to you. I have a car and a van we share between the two of us. I know a well established guy who only has an estate car and a trailer if he needs to transport large items.

5, You'll need to start off a bit cheaper than the competition to get your foot in the door, and do silly small jobs the larger companies won't touch such as replacing awkward bath taps, changing washers etc. Be prepared for tight spaces and fiddly work. If you do these jobs well, the customers will pass your name on which is the best form of advertising you can get. If you have been trained in tiling, great. If not I suggest you get some training. This will help you get known and get some extra work. Don't attempt tiling unless you have been properly trained as a poor job or loose tiles is negative publicity. What you think may be OK may well not be.

Get to know a joiner and an electrician you can call on when you need their services.

This is great WHPES, I thought there was a few more things I needed to get !

One thing I did buy that I have found was invaluable was a wet dry vac, invaluable for draining down toilet cisterns, pans, cleaning up spills quickly etc. Mine was £45 from screwfix. Money well spent an speed the job up

Plum Bob 66

 

[WHPES]

Was working with an electrician who had everything Milwaukee stuff including the fleece and baseball cap! Reckoned it was the best out.