Steam condensate and Legionella...

[alan elliott]

Can anyone advise on the chances of Legionella existing in the condensate pools from a Victorian steam engine, please? The pool temperatures range from cold to fresh steam condensate and they are very large, dirty and open to the atmosphere...

 

[oz-plumber]

Hi Allan

As long as the temperature of the water is not constantly between 35C + 45C ( the perfect temperature for breeding ) the legionella will be dormant or killed off.
There is much more info available if you Google it.

The water in the tank looks very unclean.
Can you treat it with Chlorine or some other product?

 

[alan elliott]

Hi and thanks for your help... I've spent a very long time online because we had an assessment done by H2O who have done an assessment and in their report have said we should undertake a risk assessment for Legionella... Everything I've read seems to suggest there is very little risk from our pools or boiler or wall heater and we are a small charity not wishing to pay for an assessment- I've been contemplating the send away DIY kits but even they have a significant cost to our museum! Thanks again...and BTW..the pool is not our dirtiest... that has more oil and wax in it... we cant treat the water as eventually, it goes into the drain!

 

[chris watkins]

Important thing is not that the water may contain Legionella (my understanding is it is naturally in the environment any way) but does the water get moved / splashed around were it could be atomised & breathed in.
This surely should be the focus of the risk assessment, looking at ways to minimise the transfer is just as important as treating it.

 

[chris watkins]

Whats the museum Alan ??

 

[Last Plumber]

Hi and thanks for your help... I've spent a very long time online because we had an assessment done by H2O who have done an assessment and in their report have said we should undertake a risk assessment for Legionella... Everything I've read seems to suggest there is very little risk from our pools or boiler or wall heater and we are a small charity not wishing to pay for an assessment- I've been contemplating the send away DIY kits but even they have a significant cost to our museum! Thanks again...and BTW..the pool is not our dirtiest... that has more oil and wax in it... we cant treat the water as eventually, it goes into the drain!

I would advise you to have a sample of the water tested first. I don't know how much the online kits are but it would be worth it just to put your mind at rest until you decide on where to go with it next.
Last time I sent a sample in, I think it cost £40?
That's a small price to pay to be confident you're safe at present.

 

[Rob Foster]

Can anyone advise on the chances of Legionella existing in the condensate pools from a Victorian steam engine, please? The pool temperatures range from cold to fresh steam condensate and they are very large, dirty and open to the atmosphere...

View attachment 39605

Hi Alan...I really dont think you have a problem but are being wound up by some water treatment outfit. However I really like steam engines of all sorts. I am a water engineer and have good knowledge in this area and what I do not know I can get validated...
by experts... It seems like you might be a not for profit set up.
So indicate where you are based and I will call by FOC
We generally operate ...M6, M5, M40 A30
M50 .up to 30 miles either side of ..at least 3 4 times a month..let me know
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[alan elliott]

Thanks to all- I wasn't expecting so many responses! It's confirming my ideas on the matter...To Rob...The museum is The Markfield Beam Engine and Museum in South Tottenham... We are run by volunteers and survive on donations alone...we open less than a couple of dozen days a year and steam for less than nine... I live very local and can be there in ten minutes anytime you're in the area Rob...thank you for this offer...

 

[Plumbthatin]

Good evening Alan,

I hope you are well, this is my first post to the forum so you may have to be patient with my lack of forum etiquette,

My understanding of your situation is that you are

A) a registered charity
B) operating from a commercial or potentially industrial premises
C) allow either employee’s, public or others that you or the charity have a duty of care over

If all the above are correct under current legislation, it is within my opinion that you or the charity (if these are differing entities) are liable to carry out a risk Assesment in respect of the specific risk that your current premises poses. This, as raised by either a previous installer or consultant, is specific to wholesome, waste or stored water.

The best way in order to do so is to employ a competent individual or company to undertake the required risk assesment and if necessary make required advice on how to control the risks Typically by the following (but not limited too) : do nothing, alter the current installation to reduce or eliminate risk, have a system treatment implemented to reduce or eliminate risk or have a periodic control system implemented

I hope this is of some help to you and would suggest you seek the services of a competent company ideally who specialise in water treatment and risk assessing. This is common place within the commercial and industrial market.

I understand your lack of funding towards such services due to you being a small charity however I only make these suggestions as it would be considered in best practice at minimum and depending on circumstances a legal requirement to do so.

Please see the following documents to help with your issue:

HSE approved code of practice for the control of legionella bacteria in water systems (L8)

Health and safety at work Act (HASAWA)

I hope the above was a short and concise (as possible) answer to your question. I hope I didn’t repeat any earlier answers and should you require further assistance fee free to ask.

 

[alan elliott]

Hi Plumbhatin... you have a pretty clear picture of our situation and the trustees may decide to have a professional assessment but meanwhile I am trying to gather more info to help with our decision- I have the HSE doc. and this is helpful... thanks again...

 

[alan elliott]

Whats the museum Alan ??

The Markfield Beam Engine and Museum... not sure if you've already seen this Chris...

 

[Rob Foster]

I think you are wanting a certificated statement of safety regarding your installation.
I cannot provide that but I know who can, they assess schools public swimming pools and hotels etc...they are national uk ...if you wish I will have a word and see what they might do for you
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
let me know

 

[chris watkins]

The Markfield Beam Engine and Museum... not sure if you've already seen this Chris...

Hi Alan
Yes I did already have a look thanks, very interesting!!
I will come have a look on one of your open days as already been to see my local one at Crossness a couple of times.
Just love these keep up the good work.

 

[alan elliott]

Hi Chris... as you probably are aware we're next steaming this Sunday 28th... thanks...

 

[alan elliott]

I think you are wanting a certificated statement of safety regarding your installation.
I cannot provide that but I know who can, they assess schools public swimming pools and hotels etc...they are national uk ...if you wish I will have a word and see what they might do for you
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
let me know

Hi Rob... we are legally allowed to do our own risk assessment and therefore certification and we are always looking for the cheapest reliable option. Everything takes time to reach decisions as we run like a cooperative, and in our spare time, but I will pass your offer to the trustees... thanks again...