Stopcocks, gate valves and water hammer!!! HELP!!!!

[SAFFY9]

Hiya. I'm new here and have registered through desperation. I know very little about plumbing. I'm a girly living alone and think my plumbers are telling me rubbish. Any advice would be much appreciated as this is costing me a fortune.

Brief background. Always had high water pressure and water hammer problems. When my dad was alive he had turned the stopcock(traditional brass tap thing) to restrict the flow. That worked. No more water hammer.

In January brass stopcock started leaking. 50 years old. Phoned plumber. He replaced it but with a gate valve. I pointed out to him that it said on the packaging gate valves should not be fitted to the rising main but he assured me it was equally as good as the brass stopcock. So I believed him and paid up.

Then the water hammer re-started. I turned the gate valve to reduce flow and water hammer largely disappeared. Then I read on internet that gate valves should only ever be fully opened or fully closed and not used to restrict flow. So I opened the gate valve fully (again) and phoned another plumber.

The second plumber came out this week. He told me the gate valve was perfectly ok to use on the rising main and the cure for water hammer was to partially close it. Which he did. I didn't really believe him but paid up anyway.

So now I'm back where I started. No water hammer but terrified my gate valve is going to fall to bits by being half turned. So, what I want to know is this:-
- is it ok to fit a gate valve as a stopcock?
- is it ok to partially close a gate valve to reduce water pressure and remove water hammer?
- what other options are there to remove water hammer? Would a pressure reducing valve work?
- should I get a 3rd plumber out???

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i personally wouldn't use a gate valve as a stopcock. i think your two plumbers were just being lazy, the first for not going and getting one and the second for not changing it.
oh and welcome to the forums.

 

[mikeygas]

Gate-valves are used on low pressure water, i.e water from storage tanks. Stopcocks are used on the rising main.

 

[SAFFY9]

Yes, that was my understanding and that's what I've been telling my plumbers. So how come I've got 2 plumbers from 2 different firms telling me the gate valve is fine to use? I feel I'm going mad and nobody is listening to me

 

[PlumbBobBob]

sounds like you've been unlucky with your two plumbers. where are you? maybe someone on here will be able to help, we are all very friendly on here.

 

[SAFFY9]

Lanarkshire. I've got a 3rd plumber lined up who has been recommended to me by a friend. He's on holiday just now but I'll get in touch with him when he gets back. Thanks anyway. x

 

[gates1979]

So the second plumber charged you to turn the gate valve down which you had already done

 

[oldplumber]

if and when it goes wrong, then ask the next guy to install a proper stopcock which will comply with water regs. until then close it down and dont worry to much

 

[SAFFY9]

So the second plumber charged you to turn the gate valve down which you had already done

Yes, he did. Unfortunately he arrived an hour early. I was at work and my mother paid him. I've written off to head office trying to get my money back.

 

[Girl Plumber]

yeah I agree with 'oldplumber', its not the end of the world to have it cranked down, but how bloody annoying - I hate rogue/lazy tradesmen, the country is flooded with them

 

[SAFFY9]

if and when it goes wrong, then ask the next guy to install a proper stopcock which will comply with water regs. until then close it down and dont worry to much

That's what my neighbour told me. I'm just a natural worrier. We get loads of frozen pipes up here and I'm scared if a 'flood' does happen my gate valve won't work properly. But I guess it will soon be summer!!!!

I'm convinced workmen think because I'm a girl I have cotton wool between my ears. But I'm not stupid. I read things. Not saying I always understand them but I have an instinct for sussing if I'm being told crap.

 

[SAFFY9]

yeah I agree with 'oldplumber', its not the end of the world to have it cranked down, but how bloody annoying - I hate rogue/lazy tradesmen, the country is flooded with them

Too true. I'm just annoyed at being taken for a fool.

 

[gates1979]

Just out of curiosity if things did go wrong and im not saying they will whos neck is on the line is it the guy who fitted it or the second guy who come out and said it was ok and adjusted it

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i'd say it was the second guy for not changing it for the correct one.

 

[Bartdude]

You've been unlucky enough to get 2 bad tradesmen in a row,they're both in the wrong. A gate valve is for low pressure situations,I wonder if the original plumber knew that or whether that was all he had on the van? As others have said get a new stopcock fitted,you could also have a pressure reducing valve fitted at the same time,which would solve your original problem of high pressure. Turning the stopcock(or gate valve!)reduces the flow,not the pressure and the correct valve will sort that.

 

[royston]

Yes agree with the above get a stop tap fitted and a reducing valve as turning stop tap down wont reduce the pressure.

 

[raymondo68]

Hi Saffy

Sounds like you have been a bit un lucky here. Gate valves are not suitable for rising mains. In my humble opinion gate valves are not really suitable for anything lol.

However the reason they are not suitable is not that they might fall to bits but simply that they probably will not completely shut off the supply should you need to in an emegrgency.

Having said that, you probably have a stopcock outside the property that will do the same job. I agree with oldplumber, try not to worry. Incisenatally it is acceptable to use a WRAS approved lever valve as the in coming isolator. This is my preferred option these days as they are easy to operate and far less likely to seize or leak like tradirional stop cocks.

Good luck

regards

raymondo

 

[raymondo68]

Ooops. Forgot about your water hammer.... lever valve probably not suitable unless you get that sorted. How does the water hammer present itself? Is it always present or only after you have run water???

 

[SAFFY9]

Hi all. Thanks for your replies. I'm just glad to know I'm not losing the plot here and my thoughts on the subject turned out to be correct. I'm less worried now than I was. When the better weather comes in I'm going to get a plumber to replace the gate valve with a stopcock and ask him to fit a pressure reducing valve at the same time.

As for my water hammer, it only seems to appear after the cold water tap in the bathroom has been running and then closed off or after the toilet has been flushed. And it's not immediate either. I think it's when water is rushing up to re-fill the water tank in the loft. Sometimes I think I've got away with it and creep back to my room only to hear the Bang Bang Bang Bang starting up about 4 minutes later....

And it does seem to have a tendency to do its Bang Bang Bangs (and be much louder) at 3am or somesuch. As if it knows when all the neighbours are asleep and just ready to be woken up. I was actually wondering whether the water pressure is higher during the night or something?

Oh and one time during the night my mum was staying with me and flushed the loo at 5am. It decided not to do its Bang Bang Bang Bangs. On that occasion the whole block was awoken to the sound of the QE2 coming in to port :-(

Anyway, I've turned the gate valve quite a lot and that's definitely helped. It had a wee Bang Bang Bang spell earlier today but not as loud as normal and it didn't last very long.

There is an outside stopcock but it's communal and serves about 10 houses. And I have a grumpy neighbour who objects to having his water turned off. But hey-ho. What can you do?