support for vertical gas pipe

[sophie100]

Hi all, after trawling the internet for hours I'm hoping the forum can help.
I need to know what type and at what distance a vertical domestic gas pipe should be supported.
I am checking on some work that was done in my house and the copper supply pipe to my boiler upstairs runs up an internal riser next to a plastic soil pipe - in fact it is duct taped to it together with some sacking padding. It's difficult to see but looking up I can't see any other support up the riser for at least 1.5m and the pipe moves.
It looks dodgy to me but I'm no expert.
Thanks for reading.

 

[anz]

If its copper pipe and up to 15mm it should be clipped at least every 2 metres on a vertical run.

22mm and above should be clipped at least every 2.5 metres on a vertical run.

 

[sophie100]

Thanks anz
Yes it is 22mm copper pipe so looks like I need to break into the riser a bit further up to see more! House starting to resemble swiss cheese as I have some other building problems as well.

 

[newbie1]

firstly it shouldnt be duck taped to anything and for a vertical run of 22mm pipe it should be every 2.5m and 15mm every 2m
for horizontal run 22mm wld be every 2m and 15mm every 1.5m
pipe should not be movingwith the correct support
when you say a riser dou you mean its boxed in and if so is it vented at top and bottom of boxing
next question is where have they connected to the main gas supply and most importantly were they a gas safe engineer as if not you have 2 issues
1/is it safe
2/if a problem and it leaks youre house ins will be invalid if the work was done by a non gas safe engineer

 

[anz]

newbie for gas, support distances are different, mine are right.

 

[newbie1]

that was for gas
vertical run copper 22mm 2.5m per clip
vertical run copper 15mm 2.0m per clip
horizontal run copper 22mm 2.0m per clip
horizontal run copper 15mm 1.5m per clip
but this sounds like it isnt clipped merely duck taped

 

[REDSAW]

your both wrong, and i question you.

vertical 15mm its 1.8m.
horizontal 15mm its 1.2m

22mm
v = 2.4m
h = 1.8m

i thank you!

you know thinking about it,
i have an uncle who is an electrician, he's that tight he wont clip his cables unless he really has to, because they cost money?.

 

[newbie1]

your both wrong, and i question you.

vertical 15mm its 1.8m.
horizontal 15mm its 1.2m

22mm
v = 2.4m
h = 1.8m

i thank you!

you know thinking about it,
i have an uncle who is an electrician, he's that tight he wont clip his cables unless he really has to, because they cost money?.

red where is that from corgi dom ver 5
is up to 15mm vertical 2.0m and 1.5m for horozontal
22mm and above vertical 2.5m horizontal 2.0m
page 108 table 5.6

 

[REDSAW]

hmmm,
ok i see i am quoting the bs-2409850440902097580248709.... whatever set by the
uk copper-board, you know, follow manufactureers recommendations.
however looking back in the post somehow beliefs vary for some reason.
strange.

 

[anz]

red where is that from corgi dom ver 5
is up to 15mm vertical 2.0m and 1.5m for horozontal
22mm and above vertical 2.5m horizontal 2.0m
page 108 table 5.6

Sorry, you are right, I got my figures from the same book, but typed them up wrong. So these figures are correct.

 

[newbie1]

no prob between the 3 of us i think we can safely agree this install is not correctly done especially as its ducktaped to the soil pipe and i would even possibly class it as at risk due movement on the pipe could crack a joint and if its that sloppy with support i dont hold out a lot of hope that it wascorrectly tested either

 

[sophie100]

Thanks for all the replies, it gives me some confidence to take it further. I've now demolished a bit more wall and what I can see is this:
22mm copper pipe travels across ceiling void in downstairs cloakroom to a boxed area in the corner. Pipe runs parallel to the ceiling joists and I can see some plywood across the void with a hole cut in it for the pipe so I guess this gives it horizontal support. 0.4m from this plywood support the pipe enters the box with a right angle bend, then it heads down for 1.3m (this is the bit that is gaffa taped to the soil pipe and also has yellow tape round it that says GAS), it then goes horizontal for 0.2m then back up for 1.8m until I can just see a white plastic clip on the wall (beyond this it goes up to the boiler on top floor of 3 storey semi-detached house but I can't trace it any further at the moment).
So what I've basically got is a big U bend with a total distance between supports of 3.7m and it all wobbles.
Boxed area does not have a vent at the top and no external vent at the bottom but if I peer around the back of the loo I can see the vertical soil pipe so any gas leak in the box would enter the house here.
Work done by a medium sized local firm who installed the boiler and I have a certificate.
Sorry it's a long post but trying to include all the details.

 

[Mike Jackson]

No vent required if the boxing has a cross sectional area of less than 0.01 square metres and a volume of less than 0.1 cubic metres.

Mike

 

[newbie1]

depends on size of boxing in on stack pipe i suppose without seeing it the cross sectional areas and volume that dont req venting are quite small,,its not meant to contain gas just provide a means of detection
regardless of the figures sophie i would say this gas pipe has not been run safely as it isnt correctly secured if it wobbles and by doing so could crack a joint leadint to a escape
it may be fine at present but if someone came and for example worked on the stack pipe and the gas pipe then moved this could cause a joint to leak,

 

[Bernie2]

It seems to break so many recommendations I don't know where to start.

As usual though you will probably need some kind of written back up from an official technical source. You could of course try GasSafe, as far as I know it was set up specifically for this kind of thing. They would send an inspector out who would then contact the company responsible if they where found in breach of regulations.

But before that you probably want some idea if your right about your suspicions.

May I suggest going to the UK Copper boards website and under Installation tips, downloading CDA Publication 124 on Gas Installations, that should tell you what you want to know.

Sorry, but gas and landlords can be a bit of a minefield you usually finish up being more like a lawyer than a gas engineer. In other words people want proof its dangerous.
If that is not enough, depending where you are, if your in a local library that does the British Standards free access thing. You can read what parts you want to pick up on in the CDA book, then get access to current British Standards that cover that area, print it out and show them that.
Incidentally you can as far as I know only print out a certain percentage of any one British Standard for free so make sure you know exactly which part of the standard you are referring too.

Hope this helps!

 

[sophie100]

Just an update on this.
Gas Safe Register inspector has now had a look at this and agreed there is a lack of support and the pipe should be secured to the wall so that it doesn't move. The ventilation to the boxed section was adequate - in fact too much as there is a gap into a cavity party wall so this needs attention too.
Thanks again for all the advice.