taking the van home????

[plumb_know]

Hi Everyone,

I am starting to try and grow my business but not wanting to do PAYE due to the ball seeming to be firmly in the employees court but i do want to build a brand and have my own sign written vans used. I have had a lot of people trial and they all want to take the van home, But with them being self employed i am reluctant to do this as i would have a lot of stock on them. Also on reading it seems that in HMRC view if they start taking the van home they can be seen as actually employed.

I am wondering how others deal with this issue, i see some companies lease the vans like pimlico but i know they have got in trouble a couple of times with sub contracting and i don't have as big pockets as them to deal with it.

Just wanting to see more experienced peoples views on this??

Advice much appreciated

 

[oz-plumber]

GPS tracking - OK if you inform the employee driving the van.
( illegal if you don't inform - go figure!! )

Secondly, keep an inventory of stock in the van and have the employee write down what he uses.
I have a mate that has 8 vans on the road and he carries most of the stock on hand at his premises.
The vans are refilled once a week and more often if needed.
Also checks every invoice if Plumbers have to go to suppliers.

He's got a good crew - but I'm sure the odd piece goes missing

 

[centralheatking]

Hi Everyone,

I am starting to try and grow my business but not wanting to do PAYE due to the ball seeming to be firmly in the employees court but i do want to build a brand and have my own sign written vans used. I have had a lot of people trial and they all want to take the van home, But with them being self employed i am reluctant to do this as i would have a lot of stock on them. Also on reading it seems that in HMRC view if they start taking the van home they can be seen as actually employed.

I am wondering how others deal with this issue, i see some companies lease the vans like pimlico but i know they have got in trouble a couple of times with sub contracting and i don't have as big pockets as them to deal with it.

Just wanting to see more experienced peoples views on this??

Advice much appreciated

When I had a load of engineers it was a mixture of their trucks and mine. Magnetic Signs for their vans and fixed boards for mine. Responsible people will park in sensible places. Also expect them to use your van a bit at weekends, you can soon spot a naughty one due to mpg. Often would see a van out on a weekend. It’s down to trust when you hire. Also loads of vans in a yard at night will be a target, annoy the neighbours and mean the fellas working less hours. Having to drop off and collect vans.
Also what about emergencies. My uncle Cecil had all his vans back at weekends and that worked for him. Centralheatking

 

[plumb_know]

Thanks, something i will consider. only thing at the moment most of our work is within 10-15mins of my house so would not be much loss in time for van to be picked up and dropped off. As these people will be self employed what happens regarding van being broken into, do you put in some conditions into the contract regarding van use, parking etc?

 

[Scott_D]

Thanks, something i will consider. only thing at the moment most of our work is within 10-15mins of my house so would not be much loss in time for van to be picked up and dropped off. As these people will be self employed what happens regarding van being broken into, do you put in some conditions into the contract regarding van use, parking etc?

Will they unload tools etc into your house every night? or do you have a lockup

 

[plumb_know]

No wont need unloading, it will be on my drive but they have dead locks fitted and someone is always in and have camera's fitted.

Main thing i am worried about is if someone lets a mate rob the van, as i don't know the people i am hiring and as they are self employed they don't have any ties to the company.

 

[oz-plumber]

Thanks, something i will consider. only thing at the moment most of our work is within 10-15mins of my house so would not be much loss in time for van to be picked up and dropped off. As these people will be self employed what happens regarding van being broken into, do you put in some conditions into the contract regarding van use, parking etc?

You could put conditions on the contract about the van only being used for your business purposes, but as for parking and theft from van - doubt that very much.

You sound very tentative about supplying a van to an 'employee' who will be self employed.


Scenario:

Say the said employee is driving home, his wife call hims and says 'can you pick up some things from the supermarket'.
While parked in the parking lot, the van gets done over.

What's your call - Van was parked at a location that wasn't work related.
Self employed 'employee' should have gone home first, changed vehicles an then went to supermarket.

Best you get the employee to pick the van up from your place and drop it off every evening.
The issue with that is that you will have to pay the person from the time that he picks the van up to the time he drops it off.

Could cost you an hour a day on his wages - that you can't bill for.

Don't worry - all company's expanding go through this dilemma.

 

[Stanios]

For me having an employee using a van I own has definately been the most stressfull thing about being an employer! Right off the bat I rang an insurance broker they had no idea that a van could be owned by a company but have an emloyee as a named driver!

I will without a doubt look for people with vans in the future, if they havn't got a van suggest they can lease their van. Random tool theft can be covered easily by insurnace.. I've had tools nicked actually made me a bit of money through insurance which then straight went on repairs to the van. Them owning the van and having your tools insured inside it (my tool insurance was part of my PLI) you are covering all bases.



Stock- (and whatever equipment you are entrusting) just have less stock on the van. There is no point in carrying a three port valve that will only be needed twice a year and in case your guy actually remembers he has it will save him 30 mins trip to a shop. Also small vans are easy to park and less prone to damage, much less messy inside, cheaper to buy/lease and more economical.
.

 

[centralheatking]

For me having an employee using a van I own has definately been the most stressfull thing about being an employer! Right off the bat I rang an insurance broker they had no idea that a van could be owned by a company but have an emloyee as a named driver!

I will without a doubt look for people with vans in the future, if they havn't got a van suggest they can lease their van. Random tool theft can be covered easily by insurnace.. I've had tools nicked actually made me a bit of money through insurance which then straight went on repairs to the van. Them owning the van and having your tools insured inside it (my tool insurance was part of my PLI) you are covering all bases.



Stock- (and whatever equipment you are entrusting) just have less stock on the van. There is no point in carrying a three port valve that will only be needed twice a year and in case your guy actually remembers he has it will save him 30 mins trip to a shop. Also small vans are easy to park and less prone to damage, much less messy inside, cheaper to buy/lease and more economical.
.

There is an important back story regarding this honest post. I have been in this game which I love since 1982 and have learned and observed a lot. To expand from a one man operation is a simple step at face value. However beware it is vital to go from 1 man self employed to a bigger business has to meet some vital criteria otherwise you might go bust. Aspiring engineers need to get from 1x man to 5+ in 3 years. The reality is 2,3,4 fellas will never earn you enough money to keep you afloat. You will not earn enough £ for yourself because you are running around selling getting stuff etc. and often after you have paid out they will earn more than you. Seen many fellas go down this route ...left me and after a while come back because the cupboard was bare because of the above reasons. I had 20 fellas at my busiest ...just be carefull..and good luck Centralheatking

 

[Stanios]

There is an important back story regarding this honest post. I have been in this game which I love since 1982 and have learned and observed a lot. To expand from a one man operation is a simple step at face value. However beware it is vital to go from 1 man self employed to a bigger business has to meet some vital criteria otherwise you might go bust. Aspiring engineers need to get from 1x man to 5+ in 3 years. The reality is 2,3,4 fellas will never earn you enough money to keep you afloat. You will not earn enough £ for yourself because you are running around selling getting stuff etc. and often after you have paid out they will earn more than you. Seen many fellas go down this route ...left me and after a while come back because the cupboard was bare because of the above reasons. I had 20 fellas at my busiest ...just be carefull..and good luck Centralheatking

I worked out with two plumbers and vans I could down tools, do quotes, supervise or assist in a tight spot. Would probably work as many hours as they do and make around the same money. I think downing tools is a necessary step to grow which I think is where the main problem lies - I enjoy being on the tools, also the feeling of someone replacing you and question of where to find such a person.

Seems things are slow to happen naturally I can see having the two guys in three years but not 5. I think a lot of it really is down to luck and circumstance, if I knew someone skilled and available I would employ them, if I had contacts in construction or estate agents I would get constant work that would push the growth. These things give you an edge and ultimately make or break a business.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I worked out with two plumbers and vans I could down tools, do quotes, supervise or assist in a tight spot. Would probably work as many hours as they do and make around the same money. I think downing tools is a necessary step to grow which I think is where the main problem lies - I enjoy being on the tools, also the feeling of someone replacing you and question of where to find such a person.

Seems things are slow to happen naturally I can see having the two guys in three years but not 5. I think a lot of it really is down to luck and circumstance, if I knew someone skilled and available I would employ them, if I had contacts in construction or estate agents I would get constant work that would push the growth. These things give you an edge and ultimately make or break a business.

If you want that and it pays it own way need at least 5 on the books

 

[plumb_know]

Thanks everyone for the valuable advice, for now i am going to keep it as picking the van up and dropping it off as the person i am going to use has to drive past my house to where our work is mostly anyway. but as i expand and work further out then i will have to let them take the van and have sleepless nights.

Regarding carrying less stock, that is something i do not want to do as i hate wasting time in traffic to pick up something small, i can get 8-9 jobs done before 5 as i don't have to keep making trips to the merchants.

appreciate all your experience and will keep you informed with how it goes

 

[oz-plumber]

You don't have to have sleepless night or worry about stock being 'borrowed'

All you do is stock the van as you would yours, make a list of the stocked items and have the employee write down what they use. You'll need that information for invoicing anyway.

I agree with you on the principle of having a stocked van so you can do jobs without running off to suppliers each and every other job, but sometimes you can't avoid it.

You don't have to be nosy or aggressive about the stock, but just be diligent.
Ask what they have used and do they need a stock up.

As for the welfare of the van and its belongings, they are replaceable.
My mate that employs several plumbers, bought his longest employed employee a new van so he could hand down the older van to a younger plumber.
New van, sign writing, racked out and everything.

The van was written off in an accident without having 300 km on the clock.
Wasn't the plumbers fault - at least he wasn't hurt or the occupants of the other car weren't hurt.
T-Boned by someone driving through a stop sign, rear wheel axle broke and the van ended up plowing through a brick fence.

**** happens