Tamper Proof Central Heating Controls. Recommendations Please.

[patray]

I own a Victorian house split into 4 small flats. There has always been a problem with mould and since electricity costs have been increasing it's been getting worse. (The flats are all electric and the tenants are just not heating, or ventilating, them enough). I am now considering putting in a gas central heating system for the whole house and the heating and bill will be paid by me. I need to make sure I have control over the time and temperature and that the tenants cannot over ride the settings. This is all new to me and I have been looking at controls/programmers available but it's all very confusing! Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you, Pat

 

[PlumbBobBob]

welcome to the forums pat. i think the easiest way to do this is with seperate zones for each flat each with it's own controller. run off one boiler although you will have to have an area where you can put the controls preferably near to the boiler so you have control over the controls.

 

[patray]

Thank you Steve for a prompt reply but now you have given me something else to think about! Why would tenants need their own controls? What I was thinking to do is provide CH for the whole house from 1st October until 30th April. CH to come on around 6.30am till 8.30 am and 4.30 pm to 9.30 pm Mon. to Fri. Longer at the weekend. (This is similar to my own CH settings). Set at 21 degs. Two of the flats are being refurbished now (lots of insulated plasterboard going in) which is why I am thinking of doing this now. Is what I'm thinking of doing wrong? I thought I would talk to all the tenants and adjust the timing to suit the majority. i.e. If they all get up earlier or get home later. Pat

 

[armourer]

Imho its not a good idea to ration someones heat.
The weather in this country is unpredictable at best and we can have a cold snap at anytime leaving your tenants cold.

I mean from your timings above the central heating would be now turned off and I know its still cold here in the evenings.

 

[buckley plumb]

had a discussion with a landlord i do work for he had the heatig comming on 2 hrs in the morning and 2 hrs at night even in the freezing . how i see it he has a legal requirement to provide a constant 18oc in bed rooms and 21oc in living room constantly . the law student at the property picked him up on this . what do others think


ant

 

[ecowarm]

I dont think there is a legal requirement for this other wise the landlords would have to top up thousands of empty pre-payment meters all the time

 

[Roger Welton]

Not sure this is a good idea, can see more problems created by this than solved (Its too hot / too cold, etc) And the tenants could still turn off radiators so defeating the point.

I'd have thought note any damp problems during routine visits and either repair if down to leak, etc. or bill tenant (deduct from deposit if a end of term) if down to their negligence.

 

[patray]

Now I am beginning to think that putting in CH is not a good idea although it would make the property a nicer place to live as I intend heating the common parts so the hall etc will be warmer as well. I don't understand Buckley's answer. Maybe that was a house share. Why would a landlord of 4 separate flats have a legal requirement to keep bedrooms at a constant 18 degs? I have 4 separate flats and at the moment they are responsible for heating their own accommodation with electricity. (This is very expensive now and they are skimping on the heating with the resultant problems). The separate Tenancy Agreements will state that the rent includes heating during the periods stated above. Surely if this is accepted by the tenant there would be no problem. Electric heaters will also be provided for the tenants use, at their own expense. Armourer I would not be rationing heat. There must be thousand (millions) of us that set their heating to the times above when they are out to work all day. I am not doing this as a moneymaking exercise. Apart from the cost of installing the CH I don't even have any idea of what it will cost me to run. I am thinking of doing it because I think it will be good for the house and my tenants. But thank you to those that have replied as I posted because I wanted to hear some different points of view that I may not have thought of so keep them coming :smartass: thanks, Pat

 

[MattWeth]

I would have thought that as you are basically giving them some free heat out of the goodness of your heart there shouldn't be a problem. They still have the ability (and responsibility) to provide their own heat via electricity as stated in their agreement. The only difference is that you are giving them some free heat at certain times. If all the radiators have thermostatic valves fitted, they can control the 'free' heat to suit. You'll also probably find that the insulation you are fitting makes a big difference to comfort and fuel bills.

However human nature being what it is, they'll undoubtedly whack everything up to max so as to get the most 'free' heat as they can and not bother using their own electric heating. Before too long they will start to see the free heat as their 'right' and forget that they have the ability to use their own electric heating. If and when the 'free' heat becomes unavailable or if they feel cold during the free heat 'off' times you'll no doubt get it in the neck...

I'd seek some legal advice about this from a solicitor experienced in tenancy issues - it would need a carefully worded tenancy agreement.

 

[zzzjim]

Some programmable stats have an external sensor option , that modifies set temperature by
a few degrees depending on Outside temperature .

Sunny stored heat in stone work = less heating

people just leave windows open when too hot ( expensive ventilation )

 

[Nostrum]

Would it not pay to fit heating in each flat? You'll be able to charge a touch more for it, pass the bills on to the tenant and increase their desirability when tenants move? Ok it will cost you more in outlay, but these are investments after all?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I would suggest you to fit a Gas Heating and install a normal controls and not you ,THEY PAY FOR WHAT THEY USE . Or you can take a chance and offer them all inclusive but is to risky as they will have heating on and all windows open

 

[Mike Jackson]

My experience with central heating in flats is that it doesn't solve damp or mould problems because people get paranoid about heat leaking out and block every vent. They then hang washing over radiators and cause even more damp.

I'd look into a heat recovery ventilation system for the flats.

 

[MattWeth]

I'd look into a heat recovery ventilation system for the flats.

Good call.

 

[buckley plumb]

Now I am beginning to think that putting in CH is not a good idea although it would make the property a nicer place to live as I intend heating the common parts so the hall etc will be warmer as well. I don't understand Buckley's answer. Maybe that was a house share. Why would a landlord of 4 separate flats have a legal requirement to keep bedrooms at a constant 18 degs? I have 4 separate flats and at the moment they are responsible for heating their own accommodation with electricity. (This is very expensive now and they are skimping on the heating with the resultant problems). The separate Tenancy Agreements will state that the rent includes heating during the periods stated above. Surely if this is accepted by the tenant there would be no problem. Electric heaters will also be provided for the tenants use, at their own expense. Armourer I would not be rationing heat. There must be thousand (millions) of us that set their heating to the times above when they are out to work all day. I am not doing this as a moneymaking exercise. Apart from the cost of installing the CH I don't even have any idea of what it will cost me to run. I am thinking of doing it because I think it will be good for the house and my tenants. But thank you to those that have replied as I posted because I wanted to hear some different points of view that I may not have thought of so keep them coming :smartass: thanks, Pat

the landlord locked the boiler away from the tennants it was a shared house each tennant had a room. the boiler timer was also locked in the cupboard and set to come on 6-8am then 6-8 pm .thus the tennants that worked shifts were in during the day and the htg would not be on . i think the tennants have the right to be at a comfortable temp if they want when they want . the landlord paid the bills this was part of the rent .if you rented a house or room you would want to be at a comfortable temp when i went when it was snowing it was freezing

 

[steadyon]

You might consider installing a programmer and a heat meter in each flat for the heating. This would give the tenant control of when the heating was on, but by enabling you to bill them for the heat consumed, also give them an incentive not to waste the heat. You'd also need controls at the boiler as well, to shut down when no call for heat, and need to investigate your right to charge, and at what rate, for centrally supplied heat. Would need to be designed by a good heating engineer.

 

[patray]

Thank you all for your replies although some of them confuse me! It would cost far too much to run a gas supply to each flat and 2 of them are just too small to justify them having their own boiler, (Studio/bedsit with separate kitchen/diner and shower room), and at our ages we wouldn't live long enough to recoup our outlay:sad_smile:.
Buckley, this is not a shared house it is 4 separate units. The prospective tenants would be told of the times the CH would be on and if he was a night shift worker then he might think the flat was not suitable for him or he has the option of using, and paying for, electric heaters (which is the tenants only option at the moment) when the heating is off during the day.
Matt, the radiators will have thermostatic valves. I wouldn't expect them to use the electric fires instead of the CH when it is on. I was assuming that if I had a tamper proof thermostat in the entrance hall set at 21 degs. then if, for example, we had a warm few days, in April or October say, that the heating would switch off and the tenants wouldn't need to open their windows to let the heat out. Am I wrong in looking at this as being the same as in my own home (except for the fact that the tenants cannot interfere with my settings).
Mike, I don't know what a heat recovery system is so I shall Google it now.
Isn't there a landlord out there that is doing what I'm thinking of doing? Thank you again for your comment. Pat

 

[Roger Welton]

So how about a central boiler, weeding thermal stores in each flat (with immersions for backup) the flow and returns from each flat metered with something like this or similar

ABLE Instruments & Controls Limited - Heat Meters for Building Automation

so you can bill for what they use, then have the heating loop for each flat on a programmable stat with the minimum allowable / frost protection temp ramped right up, to say 16 degrees or so. Best of both worlds then.

 

[patray]

Thank you Roger, I will ask my plumber about your suggestion, Pat.

 

[Harry123]

CentaurPlus ZW is Inexpensive and easy to install.it is used for central heating controls.
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