Tankless Toilet from Attic Tank

[Simeon]

Hi

Has anyone tried running a toilet without a cistern from an attic tank in a normal house?

I'm thinking of installing a toilet with a hidden cistern in my house, and concealing it is a bit of a problem. There's a nice big tank in the attic a few meters above, so I'm wondering if it'd be possible to do away with a separate toilet cistern altogether.

According to wikipedia (link below) a 1' pipe and 2.1 bar of pressure, together with a "flushometer" valve is suitable. I've already installed a Walrus pump coming from the attic tank for the shower, so am wondering if I can use this for the toilet too.

Flush toilet - Wikipedia

Any thoughts? Apologies if this is a ridiculous question - I'm a DIYer, not a plumber!

Simeon

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Are you in the uk Simeon?

 

[rpm]

Are you in the uk Simeon?

You can buy them in the UK.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You can buy them in the UK.

yes normally mains fed but the flushometer is a usa toilet system and requires a special toilet so unsure

 

[Simeon]

I'm in Ireland - we can usually get similar stuff to the UK here (or I can always drive up to NI if I need to).

Is there a name for these sorts of toilets? I tried googling a few things but maybe I wasn't using the correct name for them?

 

[rpm]

yes normally mains fed but the flushometer is a usa toilet system and requires a special toilet so unsure

Uh, ok, can`t see why myself looks like a high level cistern pan.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Uh, ok, can`t see why myself looks like a high level cistern pan.

Flushometer - Wikipedia

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I'm in Ireland - we can usually get similar stuff to the UK here (or I can always drive up to NI if I need to).

Is there a name for these sorts of toilets? I tried googling a few things but maybe I wasn't using the correct name for them?

WC Flushing Systems / WC Flushing Control / Cistermiser Easyflush Direct flushing valve for infrared WC flushing from mains supply.

Needs to be fed from its own tank eg not connected/ teed into your tank for hot water feed etc

 

[rpm]

Flushometer - Wikipedia

However there are pictures showing a pan with rear entry flush pipe as well.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

However there are pictures showing a pan with rear entry flush pipe as well.

Don't know then mate can

 

[Simeon]

WC Flushing Systems / WC Flushing Control / Cistermiser Easyflush Direct flushing valve for infrared WC flushing from mains supply.

Needs to be fed from its own tank eg not connected/ teed into your tank for hot water feed etc

Thanks - it looks like my pump isn't up to the specs it needs unfortunately. Mine can supply about 40lpm at 2 bar, but it needs 90lpm, so it'd be a case of buying a new pump specially for it. I'll see what it all looks like price wise though.

I'm a surprised it needs so much pressure - the pressure coming from a normal toilet cistern to the pan I'd have thought would be much lower, but then the pan is probably designed differently.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would say your pump would be fine (you would need to check with the manufacturer tho) a stand toilet cistern can supply 7 litres ish (if it's set up for eco it's a lot less around 4 litres)

So a flush normally takes 10 seconds so that's 42 lpm

 

[rpm]

Put the cistern in the loft aka high level cistern, extend the flush pipe to suit and have the pull flush chain coming through the ceiling
Just make sure the seat & lid are down before flushing!

(Just joking).

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Put the cistern in the loft aka high level cistern, extend the flush pipe to suit and have the pull flush chain coming through the ceiling
Just make sure the seat & lid are down before flushing!

(Just joking).

You may laugh but seen that using an f and e tank

 

[Simeon]

I would say your pump would be fine (you would need to check with the manufacturer tho) a stand toilet cistern can supply 7 litres ish (if it's set up for eco it's a lot less around 4 litres)

So a flush normally takes 10 seconds so that's 42 lpm

They do say they need 90lpm on the website:

"To achieve an effective and efficient flush the water system needs to deliver at least 90 lpm (litres per minute). Typically this would require that the dynamic water pressure, measured before the valve, is at least 2bar. If 90 lpm cannot be achieved, the flush will be less effective and a longer flush duration or multiple flushes may be required"

But as you say, it seems an awful lot of pressure, and if a longer flush is needed it isn't the end of the world. I guess the best thing to do is a bit of an experiment - I've an ensuite that we're getting rid of, so I'll try rigging it up with just a ball valve and see what happens, then if it works buy a Cistermiser for the real thing.

 

[Simeon]

Put the cistern in the loft aka high level cistern, extend the flush pipe to suit and have the pull flush chain coming through the ceiling
Just make sure the seat & lid are down before flushing!

(Just joking).

Not sure the missus would be too happy with that - I'd probably end up hanging from the chain!

 

[rpm]

You may laugh but seen that using an f and e tank

Me too and other weird and wonderful ideas. Just wouldn`t like to my name to anything like it.

 

[rpm]

Not sure the missus would be too happy with that - I'd probably end up hanging from the chain!

If and I mean if as I don`t intend to insult the good lady, if her arse is large enough to form a water tight seal on the seat then tell her you have invented the automatic arse cleaning 2-1 system which will make you a millionaire!

 

[Simeon]

If and I mean if as I don`t intend to insult the good lady, if her arse is large enough to form a water tight seal on the seat then tell her you have invented the automatic arse cleaning 2-1 system which will make you a millionaire!

If I tell her that I'll end up hanging by something other than my neck..!

 

[Simeon]

Thanks for all the quick replies everyone, much appreciated. I'll give the experiment a try and let you all know how I get on.

All the best
Simeon

 

[townfanjon]

Surely theres room for a concealed cistern ( eg grohe adajo ) straight above the pan flush pipe .
I have a back to wall pan against a tiled dry wall where the flush pipe is in the wall and directly connected on to the cistern in the loft a pneumatic push button operates the flush , it works a treat.

 

[Simeon]

Surely theres room for a concealed cistern ( eg grohe adajo ) straight above the pan flush pipe .
I have a back to wall pan against a tiled dry wall where the flush pipe is in the wall and directly connected on to the cistern in the loft a pneumatic push button operates the flush , it works a treat.

I probably could put in a concealed cistern if I have to, but it'd mean I have to bring the wall out a bit in that place, so it'd look better if I could get it to flush directly from the loft cistern.

It sounds like that's what you've done here - if so do you have details of the valve / push button that you used? Or did you put a cistern in the wall too?

 

[rpm]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...0.html&usg=AFQjCNFQv3XggmTyEMieGTxrS6haev93Ow
TFJ, said he recessed the flush pipe into the wall with the cistern above in the loft, cistern is pneumatic so I`m guessing he used a longer than standard hose between the flush button in the room and the cistern in the loft. Sure he will be along later to reply to you.

 

[Simeon]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi95a218prWAhWLCMAKHSxdDhkQFgiXAjAE&url=https://www.grohe.co.uk/en_gb/adagio-concealed-cistern-6l-37945SH0.html&usg=AFQjCNFQv3XggmTyEMieGTxrS6haev93Ow
TFJ, said he recessed the flush pipe into the wall with the cistern above in the loft, cistern is pneumatic so I`m guessing he used a longer than standard hose between the flush button in the room and the cistern in the loft. Sure he will be along later to reply to you.

Ah, I get it now - thanks. Yes, I think that'd do the job with the cistern in the loft, and it would give better access to the cistern for servicing than burying it in the wall.

 

[townfanjon]

Yep RPM s dead right , just got a longer piece of hose but routed it down through some overflow pipe in the wall so if it split I could replace it very easily , sorry no pics , we are on holiday now , but it looks great , just a pneumatic pushbutton on to the tiles . The cistern was mounted on to some 20 mm ply both base and back screwed together at 90 degrees , with insulation around the cistern , when it flushes .... it flushes !!! , the water comes with a roar lol