Tenant no gas llgs

[leiadad]

Can anyone tell me what procedure should be when you are trying to do llgs cert and the tenant has no gas, as far as I am concerned I would prefer to cap off as can't check safety of the appliances, but that is not really up to me as would need tenants permission. We do the certs for a couple of different agents and the tenants are refusing point blanc to put anything on the meters and I don't think the landlords are prepared to put cash in the meter either. We are good friends with estate agent and she is now saying that the council are now asking if we can give them a cert stating that the appliances are unsafe, but we don't really want to give them any written confirmation that they are unsafe mainly due to fact we just don't know but also without capping off meter which we can't do without the tenants permission. Any help would be great

 

[KingDoey]

You cant do one plain and simple. It will then be up to the landlord to sort out. Through use of legal action if necessary.

 

[leiadad]

Thanks for reply , kingdoey. Yeah I understand we can't do one, the problem is any of the landlords that have the tenants who don't put it on don't really want to know they are just letting estate agent deal with it and I can't see them trying to take legal action over it. I have had a bit of a look into it and as far as I am aware as long as the estate agent has sent out all the relevant letters and tried her best to either gain access or get gas on then if it did get taken to court she would be favoured in court as she took all necessary action required, I maybe worded it wrong in first place but what I was asking was what should her course of action be as well as mine. I am surprised that the council have asked for a cert stating that appliances are unsafe, I would have expected council to know what was best action for them and estate agent

 

[jonnyswamp]

Do what you can (visually) fill out your cert stating that there was no gas present so full checks could not be completed and just bill them for a L/lords cert
They will soon sort something out if they have to pay twice for every cert
When I did a bit for agents, they would send one of the girls from the office to top up meters/make sure they had credit
This was after them paying twice a few times (not exactly double, but not far off)

 

[jtsplumbing]

So what is Gas Safe's take on this ? if you think that you may have an ID situation and tenant wont let you cap Meter Then report situation to gas supplier and get a case number ! ask what there intensions are ! put the ball in there court.

 

[leiadad]

Thanks for replies, we wouldn't want to charge twice as wouldn't want to **** some of the agents off as we get a lot of work from them, I have thought about the visual checks and putting it on cert but wouldn't want them to get gas on and there was an I'd situation that I couldn't see, I think putting the ball in suppliers court is worth a shout thou, although it wouldn't be supplier it would be national grid who would come out and cap would it not and don't know if they would be too happy if they came out to cap for unchecked appliances, will give them a bell though and see there thoughts

 

[leiadad]

In regards to what gas safe say in this situation, I gave them a phone a couple of times just to see a couple of completely different answers as they normally do, but any way as far as I can remember there last answer was to air test supply and note that appliances were unchecked which I thought was a waste of time and could get me in trouble if some other inspector had a completely different answer for doing it

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

If you have Met1,put a test meter in,do your checks,remove it and refit pre payment ,you will probably use about 50p of gas doing this so kick that charge back to the letting agent to pay

 

[leiadad]

Good idea

 

[woodsy]

Had this before and letting agent just had me cap off the meter.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Thanks for replies, we wouldn't want to charge twice as wouldn't want to **** some of the agents off as we get a lot of work from them, I have thought about the visual checks and putting it on cert but wouldn't want them to get gas on and there was an I'd situation that I couldn't see, I think putting the ball in suppliers court is worth a shout thou, although it wouldn't be supplier it would be national grid who would come out and cap would it not and don't know if they would be too happy if they came out to cap for unchecked appliances, will give them a bell though and see there thoughts

This thing with National Grid & gas Supplier is a pain in the backside, had a problem with them a wile back, both passing the buck has to who's problem it was, took them about 3 weeks to get it sorted, one saying Nat Grid stops at ECV, from ECV is suppliers problem

 

[jtsplumbing]

Thanks for replies, we wouldn't want to charge twice as wouldn't want to **** some of the agents off as we get a lot of work from them, I have thought about the visual checks and putting it on cert but wouldn't want them to get gas on and there was an I'd situation that I couldn't see, I think putting the ball in suppliers court is worth a shout thou, although it wouldn't be supplier it would be national grid who would come out and cap would it not and don't know if they would be too happy if they came out to cap for unchecked appliances, will give them a bell though and see there thoughts

This thing with National Grid & gas Supplier is a pain in the backside, had a problem with them a wile back, both passing the buck has to who's problem it was, took them about 3 weeks to get it sorted, one saying Nat Grid stops at ECV, from ECV is suppliers problem

 

[ambrosia]

we used to have this all the time, we just put a £5 on the gas card, charged £20 for doing so, and just carried on with the inspection

they'd rather pay £20 to get it done than pay us to go back twice

 

[ambrosia]

we used to have this all the time, we just put a £5 on the gas card, charged £20 for doing so, and just carried on with the inspection

they'd rather pay £20 to get it done than pay us to go back twice

 

[AMGasServices]

In response to your issue with regards to national grid they are responsible to make safe where an engineer has been refused to make it safe.

When they say we are only responsible up to the ecv that's a load of waffle because the supplier pays them 5% or something daft for each customer to supply gas to the property etc.....

And don't get me started with national grid and northern gas networks because they're incompetent in a lot of areas. The older guys have a wealth of knowledge + experience but yet can't be bothered and the newbies cap and go.

Once the meter has been capped (the customer had no heating or hot water then they'll come to their senses) you'd or another engineer would need to go out and deal with the landlord cert at the same time.

 

[AMGasServices]

In response to your issue with regards to national grid they are responsible to make safe where an engineer has been refused to make it safe.

When they say we are only responsible up to the ecv that's a load of waffle because the supplier pays them 5% or something daft for each customer to supply gas to the property etc.....

And don't get me started with national grid and northern gas networks because they're incompetent in a lot of areas. The older guys have a wealth of knowledge + experience but yet can't be bothered and the newbies cap and go.

Once the meter has been capped (the customer had no heating or hot water then they'll come to their senses) you'd or another engineer would need to go out and deal with the landlord cert at the same time.

 

[firemant]

The only sensible post on this thread is from Ambrosia.
You cannot do a LLGC with no gas. It is stupid to suggest so. The LL HAS to make every effort to gain entry and complete the works. The Agent should have a plan on place, including a clause to the effect that the tenant will be responsible for any costs involved in obtaining a court order to gain entry, or preferably that they are responsible for charges involving the engineer having to traipse away to top up a card. The agents should be giving the tenants notice f the visit, with a note to ensure gas is available.
Leidad, why the heck are you worried about upsetting the agent? YOU are the expert, not them. Make sure you know exactly what is required of you and them under the regs. Document the no gas situation with photos showing the meter with its number and the OFF notification. Are these tenants using gas at all? If not, then, yes, offer to disconnect the gas, otherwise it is not your problem. Rearrange a visit and charge according to your agreement with the Agent.(You do HAVE a proper agreement with T&C's?)
Grid will not cap off just because there is no LLGSC, only if there is an ID situation. So, in that sense they re not responsible after the ECV. if you phne them and you say there is an actual ID problem, they will then act.

Gasman, using a replacement meter is illegal theft of gas. How on earth can you charge 50p for the gas when you have no way of paying it to the supplier. As i t happens, I also have an old meter on the van, but giving theft advice, and actually telling someone to write down the fact that he has done it, here is a bit daft IMO. You could use a "spare" meter or even knock up a bypass kit but:

HOW WILL YOU PURGE WHEN YOU REFIT THE OLD METER??

To sum up:
Tell the Agent to arrange appointment and explain they MUST have gas on meter or charges will apply
If no gas on the job, then document and photo
Charge accordingly
Repeat
repeat
Repeat

Remember - it is not your legal duty to provide a valid cert when no gas is available - it is the Landlords responsibility to provide one.

 

[firemant]

The only sensible post on this thread is from Ambrosia.
You cannot do a LLGC with no gas. It is stupid to suggest so. The LL HAS to make every effort to gain entry and complete the works. The Agent should have a plan on place, including a clause to the effect that the tenant will be responsible for any costs involved in obtaining a court order to gain entry, or preferably that they are responsible for charges involving the engineer having to traipse away to top up a card. The agents should be giving the tenants notice f the visit, with a note to ensure gas is available.
Leidad, why the heck are you worried about upsetting the agent? YOU are the expert, not them. Make sure you know exactly what is required of you and them under the regs. Document the no gas situation with photos showing the meter with its number and the OFF notification. Are these tenants using gas at all? If not, then, yes, offer to disconnect the gas, otherwise it is not your problem. Rearrange a visit and charge according to your agreement with the Agent.(You do HAVE a proper agreement with T&C's?)
Grid will not cap off just because there is no LLGSC, only if there is an ID situation. So, in that sense they re not responsible after the ECV. if you phne them and you say there is an actual ID problem, they will then act.

Gasman, using a replacement meter is illegal theft of gas. How on earth can you charge 50p for the gas when you have no way of paying it to the supplier. As i t happens, I also have an old meter on the van, but giving theft advice, and actually telling someone to write down the fact that he has done it, here is a bit daft IMO. You could use a "spare" meter or even knock up a bypass kit but:

HOW WILL YOU PURGE WHEN YOU REFIT THE OLD METER??

To sum up:
Tell the Agent to arrange appointment and explain they MUST have gas on meter or charges will apply
If no gas on the job, then document and photo
Charge accordingly
Repeat
repeat
Repeat

Remember - it is not your legal duty to provide a valid cert when no gas is available - it is the Landlords responsibility to provide one.

 

[REDSAW]

i have simular situation.
to avoid hijacking this thread i have started another.............