The Bed & Breakfast Boiler Conundrum - please help

[squizemma]

I have just bought a property currently consisting of five holiday flats (with the view of turning it into a bed & breakfast) and i'm looking to upgrade the existing boiler/heating system.


The current set up (which consists of two heating zones) is as follows:


One old non-condensing boiler (boiler 1) in the ground floor owners accommodation. This currently supplies the heating and hot water to the owners accommodation and heats the cylinder on the floor above to provide hot water to each of the five holiday flats. There is another old non-condensing boler (boiler 2) in one of the holiday flats that supplies the heating to the other holiday flats. (Ideally this has to go, or at least be moved so that it is not in one of the holiday flats)


Each holiday flat consists of an electric shower (ideally to be replaced with mains powered showers and up to two baths) and each has a small kitchen that will remain. I believe pipe work throughout is 15mm; not sure where the two motorised valves are hidden though. Also not sure whether mains pressure is above 3 bar and therefore querying whether the unvented cylinder choice would even be a viable option.


We have now seen three plumbers and all have made different opinions/recommendations and I am now more confused than ever.


To summarise the options we've been given.......


1) Upgrade Boiler 1 and increase the size of the cylinder so this services hot water and heating for the whole property. (Therefore doing away with Boiler 2). Really unsure whether we would need a commercial bolier or not; hopefully not given the added cost.


2) Upgrade/change Boiler 1 to a combi boiler (to sevice only the owners accommodation) and then also move/replace Boiler 2 and buy a large cylinder so that they supply the heating and hot water to all of the holiday flats


Any advice, recommendations woud be warmly received.


Thanks in advance,
Emma

 

[Masood]

I would definitely separate the owners' accommodation from the holiday flats. As for whether you need a commercial boiler or not, that would need to be calculated depending on size of property, etc. You may be better off without a central hot water store, and a small combi in each flat. Although possibly more expensive initially, you wouldn't need to heat a huge amount of water if only one or two flats were occupied.

There are pros and cons to pretty much any solution, so the final decision will come down to what compromises you're happy to make!

 

[mountainman]

And how much you are prepared to spend!

 

[SimonG]

Budget comes as first question then I would want to know size of incoming mains cold water, how many supplies coming in and flow rates and pressures of mains. Then start from there.

 

[JAP&H]

Hi Emma and welcome.

Wouldnt have thought you would have needed a commercial boiler, but haven't seen the existing set up though.

Do the current 2 boilers provide sufficient heating and hot water?

Whats wrong with electric showers? Would it not be simpler to keep/upgrade these (thinking of pressure issues, 5 showers, 5 basins and 2 baths fed from 1 cylinder).

 

[squizemma]

Thank you so much for all your responses so far. I shall answer those questions which I am able:

-With regards to size of property, it is a 4 storey semi-detached Victorian building consisting of basement, ground, first and second floors.
-Budget is £8k if absolutely necessary.
-The argument for a combi in each flat has been considered altho fears over re-routing pipework, maintenance and servicing of 6 combi's, and too much guest control makes me nervous.
-The size of the incoming mains is 15mm; the number of supplies and flow I am not aware of. I would like to know the pressure but am unsure how to check it-none of the 3 plumbers were forthcoming when I asked their opinion.
-Lastly, the option of sticking with electric showers is still up for debate. It is a hard water area for one and I thought mains power showers would look better and me more effective; saying that i have only experienced poor electric showers in the past and i am far from an expert

Thanks again everyone - your support/knowledge/expertise is fantastic.

Em

 

[Nostrum]

I would consider a large combi installed in your living space, which supplies your living space with instant hot water and heating (zone 1)

Off the heating I would take an s plan plus with 3 time controlled zones.Zone 1 as above, Zone 2 would heat a large cylinder for the b and b rooms and zone 3 would supply heating to the b and b rooms. You could then separate each room into its own zone controlled by a room stat if required. When you have no residents you will not have to heat the cylinder as the combi will supply your water, and you only need 1 boiler plus room for a cylinder.

All dependant on a site survey etc.

2 or more boilers may require a meter upgrade if youve got cooking facilities etc whereas the combi will be proportionately sized for heating and hot water.

 

[SimonG]

Seems a lot of usage off of a 15mm supply, but it needs to be tested.

Whereabouts in the uk are you? Perhaps there is somebody on here who is close enough to have a look and point you in the right direction

 

[squizemma]

Thanks Simon, good idea. I'm in Eastbourne.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I'm in Eastbourne later this week if you want me to nip in and have a quick look. As long as the kettle is working.

 

[squizemma]

Mike, are you still there?! Such a kind offer.... and seeing as 1 of the 3 plumbers we saw has just quoted between £20-25k for 4 different options, we could really do with some impartial advice! All quotes, on closer inspection, do however include new radiators, electric shower replacement, and VAT-items which I had neither requested or factored in. All the same, these quotes coming in seem excessive to say the least, and I worry that they are taking advantage of my naivety.

I have a removals van coming on friday morning to complete my relocation to Eastbourne, and so could offer you copious amounts of tea from the afternoon, or over the weekend?

In the meantime, if anyone else has any suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated....

 

[Mike Jackson]

I've sent you a private message Emma. That does sound a bit on the high side and there are probably ways of saving money without compromising the quality.

 

[petercj]

I would be inclined to maintain the holiday flats as independent units as much as possible - then if you want to rent one, or the lot out later on, it will be easier to meter each one - would definitely keep the electric showers. They are cheap to replace if not in good condition, and will keep the issue of a number of people wanting hot water all at the same time under control.

Other than that, letting someone see what needs doing is the best way forward imo.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I nipped in yesterday afternoon and had a brief look. The prices given were not too bad for a complete rip out but it doesn't need it. A bit of reconfiguration of the pipework to relocate the upstairs boiler and cylinder, replace both boilers, a larger cylinder and TRVs throughout will be fine. It would be great to rip it all out and start again but they haven't got the budget and it doesn't make economical sense. They are going to be running it as a business they will not get a return from such a major outlay.

I'm going to call back over and spend a bit more time and give them some detailed estimates.

They are a nice couple and I hope their new venture goes well for them.

 

[Dotty]

That's the kind of thing I love about this forum Mike. Hopefully a few more people will see how good you domestic guys are, call you in and give you some work!

 

[Dotty]

Us commercial guys are great too, just our boilers are the size of sheds!

 

[Gray0689]

Us commercial guys are great too, just our boilers are the size of sheds!

Bragging again croppie lmao

 

[Barry98]

if he isnt i am

 

[arran197]

Sounds to me like a combi for your living bit and then a new system or heat only boiler for the cylinder or cylinders and the heating in the flats zoned off for each one will be the best thing, like Mike has said. Using TRVs will mean visitors will be able to turn the rads down or up easily themselves.

 

[Mike Jackson]

We've ruled out a combi. Heating pipes in floor screed and only 10 l/min incoming.

 

[phpaul]

We've ruled out a combi. Heating pipes in floor screed and only 10 l/min incoming.

unventeds out too ..solar thermal on the roof ? 2x cylinders a feck load of water storage in the rafters .

 

[Mike Jackson]

Finances don't allow for solar thermal at the moment. The budget is tight and half of it would be blown on the scaffold for a 4 storey place. It's also not a given that they'd get permission as the property is in a conservation area and driving along the road there isn't one property with panels on the roof. This may be due to the cost of access but also possibly planning restrictions.