Thermal Balancing Valves - Where to Place Them?

[cr0ft]

Hi all,

Where should these be placed on a commercial hot water system? As close as possible to the end of the return leg closest to the outlet? Which is the correct way to do it on a commercial installation, option 1 or option 2 in the link?

Please explain why so I can understand!

www.dripbusters.co.uk/Scan.pdf

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Before each leg joins back onto the main src pipework

So say you have a bank of sinks and the secondary return connection on the last sink

You could put your balancing valve anywhere from right after the connection to just before connecting onto the main return pipework

But must be after any connections

Hope this helps if not will draw something up when I get in

But either draining would work but no 2 would be costly

I would do 1 and fit lockshield gate valves on each tee in from a sink so you can balance them manually

 

[cr0ft]

Thanks Shaun. Don't know if you can see my attachment, which would be correct? The hot water setup we have at our place has the flow and returns more like a tree than individual legs lol.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks Shaun. Don't know if you can see my attachment, which would be correct? The hot water setup we have at our place has the flow and returns more like a tree than individual legs lol.

Just updated my thing as it's just loaded for me

 

[cr0ft]

At present we have that setup however we want to move to automatically balanced system as our current system is: -

A: - huge
B: - very out of balance

So we are removing the existing manual thermal balancing valves in favour of automatic ones. I was also going to add full bore lever valves to each leg just off the main branch for easy maintenance by our team down the line.

Q: - How do I tell the difference between manual and automatic thermal balancing valves? I believe we have manual ones and not automatic ones on our system. Obviously I'm aware that the automatic ones will have a thermal actuator but are they obvious to see? The valves we use at the moment look like they have a scale from 0-6 on the side of them so I'm assuming they are not automatic?

Another question too sorry - I've just finished the pipework survey and we have one basin that's connected onto the return pipework only for the hot tap :/

Also have 2 connections on the system in 15mm running directly between the flow and return main pipework.

How much of an impact will these have on our system working properly? The tap on the basin obviously runs fine but needs to be sorted. I'm more concerned about bridging the main flow and returns.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If there willing to spend the cash auto on each leg like in pic 2 and defo fit a lever valve and a big sign do not adjust balancing valve

Yes if you have a scale on them there manual (pg16)

http://www.honeywelluk.com/documents/Literature/pdf/Water Controls Guide v1.5.pdf

Auto ones have no adjustment (pg17)

Depends how you want to manual gets my vote but can take some time to set up correctly auto just fit and forget unless there's a problem

 

[ShaunCorbs]

At present we have that setup however we want to move to automatically balanced system as our current system is: -

A: - huge
B: - very out of balance

So we are removing the existing manual thermal balancing valves in favour of automatic ones. I was also going to add full bore lever valves to each leg just off the main branch for easy maintenance by our team down the line.

Q: - How do I tell the difference between manual and automatic thermal balancing valves? I believe we have manual ones and not automatic ones on our system. Obviously I'm aware that the automatic ones will have a thermal actuator but are they obvious to see? The valves we use at the moment look like they have a scale from 0-6 on the side of them so I'm assuming they are not automatic?

Another question too sorry - I've just finished the pipework survey and we have one basin that's connected onto the return pipework only for the hot tap :/

Also have 2 connections on the system in 15mm running directly between the flow and return main pipework.

How much of an impact will these have on our system working properly? The tap on the basin obviously runs fine but needs to be sorted. I'm more concerned about bridging the main flow and returns.

Need to get a hot feed for the basin can't have one working just off the src

And 15mm mains hot and 15mm src ?

??

 

[cr0ft]

I'm going to go with auto as I don't really have the experience to setup such a big system if I'm honest. I want a solution where we just set the close temperature (55C) and it does the rest for us. Also, the ones we are looking at have a thermal disinfection mode where if the temperature approached 70C they open fully allowing us to clean the system this way every few months.

Amazingly the basin works perfectly fine piped up the return only! I know it's not right but I guess from the water's point of view it makes little difference! We are going to change it over though!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes you need that mode or you would need to remove them and then flush and clean them separately

And yes doesn't make a difference still work but not correct

How you doing work wise ?

 

[cr0ft]

Really enjoying it thanks. Got my first commercial work lined up myself, fitting a k10 impulse water meter on a 54mm softened water pipe. Apparently have to fit a section of PVC pipe too after the water meter as we are fitting a chlorination plant too and have no idea what pipe size to get to match 54mm copper! I am learning all over again!

You busy??

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Really enjoying it thanks. Got my first commercial work lined up myself, fitting a k10 impulse water meter on a 54mm softened water pipe. Apparently have to fit a section of PVC pipe too after the water meter as we are fitting a chlorination plant too and have no idea what pipe size to get to match 54mm copper! I am learning all over again!

You busy??

11/2 and use male and female irons and yea will eat through the copper (remember the gluing set times )good for you

Yea booked up till January now but doing bathrooms don't mind them if I have free rain

 

[cr0ft]

1.5"'is 35mm internal bore ish, isn't that too small? I can buy 2" stuff. Different glue from regular solvent weld I'm guessing? Do you need chemical resistant glue as it's by the chlorine injection point?

Am going to glue all the PVC well before hand and then just use a slip coupler on the copper to fit it all in place.

Guessing BSS is the one stop shop for this stuff?

Glad to hear you are busy! Do you do a lot more commercial work then? You seem to know your stuff!

Did you find moving to commercial like learning all over again?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

1.5"'is 35mm internal bore ish, isn't that too small? I can buy 2" stuff. Different glue from regular solvent weld I'm guessing? Do you need chemical resistant glue as it's by the chlorine injection point?

Guessing BSS is the one stop shop for this stuff?

Glad to hear you are busy l. Do you do a lot more commercial work then? You seem to know your stuff!

Did you find moving to commercial like learning all over again?

yess sorry brain fart 2"

and yes can take anywhere from 4 hours to 24 hours to dry and the lot will have to have cr glue

bss or pipekit

and it comes in waves i can see a fair bit of servicing work next summer again unless theres plant down it should be quiet this Christmas unless emergency swap is needed (3rd generation commercial plumber was working when i was 14/15 ;D )

and for me no theres a bit more calculations but just big domestic

 

[cr0ft]

Ok so next bone question. How do i seal the bigger threads? I've heard PTFE is only good up to a certain size thread or is that crap?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Ok so next bone question. How do i seal the bigger threads? I've heard PTFE is only good up to a certain size thread or is that crap?

loctite 55