to bung or not!

[secret squirrel]

Tomorrow, I have to change a gate valve (tried wd40 and as much force as I dare)on the hot water. The customers are very elderly and do not have a lot of money. They are also on a water meter.

Here's my problem, the cold water tank is 100 gallons. I want to drain the tank, it'll make me feel better. If there's no water in the system I'm not going to have a flood.

However, if I create a vacuum I am going to save the customer (and the environment) 100 gallons.

So really, what I'm asking is opinions on creating a vacuum. Who does it? What are the advantages (other than saving time/water) and disadvantages.

Thanks

 

[johnmcginty]

You can get the bungs in the cold feed to the cyl however especially if you are on your own I would not ever create a vacumm especially if you have no experience. You could freeze it though that is going to cost you the price of the kit. I would just drain it mate

 

[jpm]

Tomorrow, I have to change a gate valve (tried wd40 and as much force as I dare)on the hot water. The customers are very elderly and do not have a lot of money. They are also on a water meter.

Here's my problem, the cold water tank is 100 gallons. I want to drain the tank, it'll make me feel better. If there's no water in the system I'm not going to have a flood.

However, if I create a vacuum I am going to save the customer (and the environment) 100 gallons.

So really, what I'm asking is opinions on creating a vacuum. Who does it? What are the advantages (other than saving time/water) and disadvantages.

Thanks

Bung it no probs.Saves time.Water is about 80p a cubic meter though so as your 100 gallons is about a half of 80pyour not costing them the earth if you drain to feel more secure.

 

[Bernie2]

Bung it! Its easy!

Try a cork or get a bung from a Plumbers merchants. They sell a cap and a bung for changing try's.

 

[Winston]

I have used bungs with great success, however I have always had some one in the loft at the time in case a emergency happens.

 

[bathroomboy]

Bung it, much easier and it may also prevent any airlocks from developing.

 

[secret squirrel]

Thanks for all the replies, greatly appreciated. I've got the impression that bungs are good if you've got someone on standby, just in case.

I will be on my own (billy no mates). I've got a couple of hours at home alone, so, will go and have a play in my loft with my bungs and see what trouble I can cause.....

Just re-read that and depends on your sense of humour it may give you a bit of a laugh, so decided to leave it as it reads..

 

[Bernie2]

Sometimes the bungs are tapered and don't go in all that well. I've used a properly sized cork, its just as good and they feel safer. Those tapered bungs I always get the filling they may just fly out.

The old recommended way to use a cork was to wrap them in a piece of silk, before bunging them in.

Another tip, is that if its an old house some tank connectors have a thread on that extend's into the tank. They are usually 3/4" b.s.p.t (iron) and so a 3/4" brass b.s.p.t cap with a rubber in usually works.

If the cork did break, the end of a file is said to get it out. I can only remember it happening only a few time's to me, when we used them nearly every day.

Try a chemists, wine merchants, home brew shop for corks. They will usually give you a hand full for a price Plumbers like to pay i.e. free.

They do work its not a joke and if your on your own they are better I feel than some of those rubber bungs. It was once virtually standard practice to use corks.

And don't forget you would be doing your bit in saving the cork forests as well.

 

[MarkB]

I use a set of these

6 Nylon Drain Plugs - NoLinkingToThis, Where the Trade Buys

Ideal for bunging 15, 22 & 28mm. I managed to break a gate valve last week and these (yet again) saved draining the whole CWSC. They slide nicely into the tank connector and then tighten up to seal.

Mark

 

[Phil]

I agree MarkB, I have a set and they have never failed me yet, I also have a set of the same ones but with a removable cap on the end. The cap can be removed with the bung still in place which lets a 'trickle' through for testing new pipework etc.

 

[Winston]

They look good, what do you guys use when the tank feed has a hexagonal internal shape, like some of the rads where you use the allen key. Come across a few of these recently, so had to drain down.

 

[MarkB]

I agree MarkB, I have a set and they have never failed me yet, I also have a set of the same ones but with a removable cap on the end. The cap can be removed with the bung still in place which lets a 'trickle' through for testing new pipework etc.

Phil - where did you get the "trickle" versions? They sound like a really good idea

They look good, what do you guys use when the tank feed has a hexagonal internal shape, like some of the rads where you use the allen key. Come across a few of these recently, so had to drain down.

Winston - I guess it'd have to be a drain down or freeze.

Mark

 

[bobpape]

It is nice to use a bung but another way is simply to lay a piece of rubber across the
outlet, anything flat and flexible will do, I have even used my moleskin wiping cloth,
If the water is not too cold you could get your apprentice to hold his hand over the
outlet, I have to say though, that the expandable plugs sound the best.
If you dont know what a moleskin or an apprentice is, just ask.

 

[Winston]

Yep whats a moleskin?

 

[jpm]

Yep whats a moleskin?

Moles are covered with it.
Lead wiping cloth somtimes even your tie eh bob?

 

[Bernie2]

Hey!

Thats not fair!

An old Geek like me never knew they made anything like that so small, we used them on drains but they where 100mm and 150mm not 15mm.

They seem a great idea?

See even "grey heads" can find out new things!

Ta! Lads!

 

[bobpape]

Yeah, then flick the flame over the joint to draw the tin to the surface and make it shine.

 

[Bob Croft]

I too use the expanding rubber bungs, they work a treat and very unlikely yo come out. I also have a tapered bung as part of a kit, don't really trust the taper to stay in place. The other end however fits nicely over the 22 mm vent pipe. Handy if you do not have a JG push fit bung handy.

 

[secret squirrel]

Thanks for all the replies, I didn't have a moleskin but tried a mole but it wriggled too much.

I did use a bung today, although I must admit I was sweating like a fat bloke at a pie eating contest, (hope, I can say that), I was a bag of nerves the whole morning.

The gate valve was not easy to get at, there was lots of wrestling with the pipe and each time it wriggled I'm sure I could hear the bung slipping.

Don't know if I can handle that level of stress on too many occasions

 

[Bernie2]

Get a mate to do it and "Bung" him a few bob!

No got to admit I would sweat as well with one of those taper bungs stuck in.

Why?

Well it happened to me, the bung started to come out on a job if I remember right and I had to run like a greyhound to bung it back in. But the old cork never let us down that I remember.

And no we never drew the tin out to make the joints shiny. What we did though was, use a hammer to draw the drip back up on a horizontal joint.

The boss I worked for as an apprentice used a scribing plate to measure your joints.

I was made up when lead water pipe went out, but that never really happened till the late 70's. In the early 70's a company I worked for was Plumbing a whole shopping precinct out with lead mains. Its still widely used for lead flashings as well.

If they banned it for lead water mains, where does the surface water run off go after its run over the lead flashings? Eventually back into the drinking water doesn't it?

Sweating a joint is also good for learning the Highland dance. Flick a bit off as you finish wiping and it goes down your boot top. Wallah! Instant Highland dancer.

Its cheap as well, you only usually need one lesson, and you don't forget it.

 

[Winston]

Getting confused still dont know what a moleskin is! Are you meaning when wiping a joint or am I really being stupid? Something I have started to wipe my joints down with is a chamois as it was to hand gave a good finish and didnt let the heat come through.

 

[secret squirrel]

Hello winston,

Cut and pasted this definition for you from wikepedia,

I can understand your confusion, its a posh rag

Moleskin, originally referring to the short, silky fur of a mole, is heavy cotton fabric, woven and then sheared to create a short soft pile on one side. The word is also used for clothing made from this fabric. It is also used in adhesive pads stuck to the feet to prevent blisters.

 

[Winston]

Thanks secret squirrel, you should a chamois leather been good so far, I had it in my tool kit by mistake but very good for soaking up little bits of water as well. Now its there all the time.

 

[Bernie2]

Winston I rather fancy somebody is taking the Micky!

A moleskin was a cloth used to shape and wipe molten lead into a joint. Its not for wiping flux off pipes and as far as I know it stopped actually being moleskin's years ago although they still call a wiping cloth a moleskin.

The original ones you bought and soaked over night in Plumbers tallow, not Russian tallow or Butchers tallow. After a decent period of use they became smooth and supple, so you could bend them and not get burnt from the heat.

Some guys used a pot and ladle but I always thought that was a bit if a fal de rol and used a lamp and a stick of solder.
It was okay when you got accustomed to wiping, but a bit hard to learn the heats when you started. Especially mixed metal joints with two different heat characteristics.

 

[Winston]

Thanks Bernie LOL, well at least I am not going to upset the mole population trying to skin the poor little blighters.