To shower..or not to shower..that is...HELP!

[springer101]

Hi All

I'd be really grateful for any tips/tricks/advice on what may be a problem. I live in a 1920's mid terraced house (4 in the row off a main road). I've always had very poor low pressure water that up until now hasn't served much of a problem other than the half hour bath running regime which runs cold after about 10 mins (CW tank in loft and HWC in airing cupboard in bathroom itself with lots of banging and clunking reminicent of charlie and the chocolate factory)! Having decided to renovate the bathroom I would like a shower and have come to realize that this may pose a problem!

Where to start is my question, is this solvable and will I be able to have a longed for shower? I have tested the output of each of the taps as follows:
Kitchen Hot Tap: 3.50 Litres/min
Kitchen Cold Tap: 5.80 Litres/min
Bathrm Sink Hot: 3.09 Litres/min
Bathrm Sink Cold: 7.23 Litres/min
Bath Cold: 5.88 Litres/min
Bath Hot: Ridiculously variable - having run off hot - 5.55 Litres/min, 3.50 Litres/min, 7.74 Litres/min to almost a spit at some points!

I'm aware of the minimum standards and am about to phone the water company to come and investigate (as I've rightfully read from some previous posts on this great website!). I also think at this stage possibly (??) it may be worth my while replacing the boiler which is 20 years old whilst I'm ripping the bath out and may/may not install a seperate shower cubicle or over the bath (dont suppose it matters which). Am sure the pipes leading to everything are probably lead so will need replacing also. Any advice to offer would be most gratefully received on what I may/may not be able to do with this problem. I'm really not sure other than the above, where to go from here or what order to do everything in and would really like to know my options/necessities!

Many thanks for reading and pondering in advance!

 

[dai the plumber]

There seems to be several different issues that are'nt coming over as clear. How big is the CWS in the loft? (rough dimensions if capacity unknown). How big are the pipes coming out at or near the bottom of the CWS? (should be 22mm, slightly smaller diameter than a 10p piece). Which floor is the bathroom on?

 

[Reg Man]

Looking at your readings I will make an educated guess. The cold water main supplies all cold taps in the property. The Cold water storage cistern supplies the hot water storage vessel. From the reading you probably have two issues. Inadequate size or restriction on the cold water main (probably a rusty steel pipe), or long shot could be burst underground pipe. I am guessing that you may live in a partial hard water area, which will lead to scaling up on the outlet at the top of your hot water vessel, this is why you are getting variable delivery on the hot water taps.

 

[stevetheplumber]

rip it out get a new main laid and put in a combi do the bathroom in a years time

 

[dai the plumber]

I'd check the CWS 1st both for water level and inflow rate. You also need to check out the working head, that is the distance between the bath hot tap and the CWS in the loft, if it's only a few feet the flow rate will be reduced same applies if the pipework is undersized or badly run which can lead to partial air locks which may cause unreliable water flow rates and noise.

 

[Reg Man]

I'd check the CWS 1st both for water level and inflow rate. You also need to check out the working head, that is the distance between the bath hot tap and the CWS in the loft, if it's only a few feet the flow rate will be reduced same applies if the pipework is undersized or badly run which can lead to partial air locks which may cause unreliable water flow rates and noise.

I think his done that. The readings are crap.

 

[springer101]

Many thanks indeed dai/Reg/Steve, oops that he is a 'she' btw, ;-)

Reg your right, this sounds just like my cws/hws! The cws is in the loft (3rd floor), directly above the landing next to bathroom (2nd floor), then maybe 2-3 foot across and on feet, although I'm unsure as to the pipes leading to/from it, i'll have to check this one, and also the capacity. Looking at the hw cylinder/tank in the bathroom cupboard, there appears to be a fair few 25mm pipes (that are warm/hot, ?CH) and the odd 15mm pipes (which mostly are cold, i think). No hard water to speak of, I live in west yorkshire, although the hw tank I am sure must be the original 30 - 40 yrs old maybe, ekk?! So there could well be something lurking in there. I've booked yorkshire water to come and check the main supply (2 doors away on main road - mmmh?!) for fri 18th so we'll see what that brings up. Hopefully my supply isn't an effect of the previous 2 houses superior supply (?), i'm really not sure how I stand if this is part of the cause? Following that, it sounds like I should get someone in, forgive me if this is a dumb question, but would a pro plumber be able to do an assessment of the internal pipe work and be able to figure this one somehow, again apologies but not had many dealings with plumbers in my past life!
Thanks so much again for all advice offered, truly appreciated.

 

[Avatar]

Simplest is to solve the water mains pressure issue. Once you have got 1.5 bar +, then strip out all that very old and cranky plumbing, cws and cylinders and just get a nice new A rated combi, which will give you an excellent shower as well!

You will spend as much trying to mod what you have, and this is the foolproof way to go. Do other houses in your street have the same pressure problem - do they have combi boilers (which require decent incoming pressure)? It might help to find out.

Good luck!

 

[WHPES]

Good advice. Sometimes it costs far more to modify old inefficient gear than it actually does to rip out and replace with a better system.

Modifying the existing system will mean complications with your bathroom which will add to costs - gravity system needs extra cold feed from the cistern to the shower, the cistern may not be up to standard (unhygienic - leigionnaires disease risk) and could need replacing, a pump would be required, to drive the shower, all adding up to a couple of hundred £ even before work starts on the bathroom. There are other complications as well installing a bathroom from your existing system - many taps and fittings now are designed for high pressure only, limiting your choice.

Far better to rip out and replace with new efficient combi boiler / unvented hot water system.

Sort out the heating and hot water first. The money you save in running costs you can put towards your new bathroom.