toilet and soil stack question

[angedup]

We are having a new toilet fitted in the bathroom which has meant a change to the plumbing.
Before - the soil tack ran up through some boxing in the utility room and into bathroom with an AAV on top. A waste pipe joined the stack just below this and then lay horizantally along the wall (boxed in) with the toilet in the opposite corner. We want to install the toilet in the corner where the stack comes through the floor and lose the unnecessary waste pip travelling the length of the room. Our plumber has removed the AAV and is planning to site the toilet dircetly at the top of this stack where it enters the bathroom through the floor. the shower waste about 1m away will also feed into this stack.

Is this ok with no vent? I'm not so sure but he says it is fine. really? or is he just saying it is fine because I am a girl.

I hope I have explained ok, I am no plumbing expert!

 

[dontknowitall]

I'd like a durgo (the aav) fitted. Just cos you're a girl doesn't mean to say you don't know any less than a plumber!!!

The reason you need to vent the soil pipe is to prevent a suction/vacuum pulling out water from the waste traps under basins and the like. If there's no air entering the soil pipe, when a plug of water goes down it creates a vacuum behind it (hence the need for a vent or durgo). Then, because there's an air gap in the waste, you'll get the smells of the drain wafting ... and it's not just girls who don't like this ...

Hope this makes sense!

 

[Deleted member 25704]

We are having a new toilet fitted in the bathroom which has meant a change to the plumbing.
Before - the soil tack ran up through some boxing in the utility room and into bathroom with an AAV on top. A waste pipe joined the stack just below this and then lay horizantally along the wall (boxed in) with the toilet in the opposite corner. We want to install the toilet in the corner where the stack comes through the floor and lose the unnecessary waste pip travelling the length of the room. Our plumber has removed the AAV and is planning to site the toilet dircetly at the top of this stack where it enters the bathroom through the floor. the shower waste about 1m away will also feed into this stack.

Is this ok with no vent? I'm not so sure but he says it is fine. really? or is he just saying it is fine because I am a girl.

I hope I have explained ok, I am no plumbing expert!

You need to get assurance in writing from your plumber with an explanation of how the drains are ventilated to such standard, that your original vent, is now no longer required.

Previous poster is spot on - the trap seals that the vent protects are the only think that separates you from toxic, and flamable gasses in the sewer - its serious to your family's health.

A drain does not always need a vent, so go carefully - if the branch drain is less than 9m with appliances connected it doesn't need a vent. The stack may be vented else where, that is satisfactory.

Good luck.

 

[angedup]

Great idea about getting assurance in writing.
if the branch drain is less than 9m with appliances connected it doesn't need a vent - it is the height of 2nd story to ground I assume and I believe it only is for the upstairs ensuite. But I can't work out how to check this at ground floor level - Im looking through the plans of the house to check for this info (house 4 yrs old).

The stack may be vented else where, that is satisfactory.
Where else could the stack be vented?

If I did want an AAV again where would this go? next to the toilet? but I assume it couldn't be boxed in could it or defeats the object! A bit bleugh having a durgo next to my beautiful new clean lined toilet.

hmm, I need to think about this - we are at floor tiling stage so I need to get onto the plumber again asap! I may be a female secondary school teacher but I am no fool and won't be taken for one. thanks

 

[dontknowitall]

Please, Miss ...!!

:innocent:

The soil pipe can either go up through the roof and vent naturally there or ...

... you can fit a on to the soil pipe durgo behind the boxing (plenty of air there!)

The job of a durgo is to let air into the soil pipe but not out, so you won't have 'orrible smells. Ideally it needs to be a good metre above the top of the wc cistern. It is simply a plastic affair with a sealing ring on it that fits on to the end of the soil pipe (vertically).

 

[angedup]

How will it get air if behind boxing?

Also, if we fit AAV on top of soild stack where will the toilet go (it is one where the waste trap is under the toilet rather than sides and it sits very flush against wall) - phoenix forma.
I am so confused about the venting issue as I was suprised when the plumber said no probs remove AAV and position toilet on top of soil stack. flush will go directly down.

thanks again. I will contact plumber yet again and ask for further confirmation that there is adequate ventilation

 

[angedup]

Please, Miss ...!!

The job of a durgo is to let air into the soil pipe but not out, so you won't have 'orrible smells. Ideally it needs to be a good metre above the top of the wc cistern. It is simply a plastic affair with a sealing ring on it that fits on to the end of the soil pipe (vertically).

Just noticed this. The old durgo which he has just removed was about 30cm above floor level at most! far below the sink waste and toilet cistern. Quality workmanship in our home!

 

[angedup]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADH_2002.pdf


p9 table 2 and diagram 3 - is this what you mean about allowed unvented?

 

[dontknowitall]

Is it possible to pop a piccy into this thread of where wc is being sited and where the soil pipe is? I'm wondering if I'm envisaging something that can't be done? Air will be in the boxing or are you making it air tight? It will get in under the floorboards, etc.

Just before pressing the "Reply with Quote" button I'm also wondering if a durgo is required at all. Your plumber might be thinking of attaching the wc, flushing, checking it's ok for syphonage, then fitting an aav to the basin to vent the other pipework.

A piccy would be helpful!!

 

[angedup]

The toilet will sit with its back against the wall over the opening in the stack and waste will go straight down the soil stack (entrance currently blocked by the plumbers jumper!) pipe from right is the shower waste, pipe from bottom of photo is the sink waste. 2nd photo shows the plumbing for the sink - unfinished which would explain why the pipes come forward and not up

 

[dontknowitall]

Hmmm ... thinks ... ouch, that hurt ...

Not the way I would have done it but I'm not saying it's wrong. What strikes me is that water might be syphoned out of the shower waste - the basin waste can be fitted with an aav but the shower waste cannot be fitted with one (as far as I know).



Just had another study. To be honest, it might well work after all!!! Best way to test would be to fit the basin and shower wastes and wc pan. Then throw a bucket of water down the pan and watch the water in the wastes move (if they do). If nothing really happens then all this earlier discussion can be forgotten.

I don't like to dismiss other peoples' thoughts or workings. In this case it could be the fourth or fifth time he's fitted a bathroom like this and never had an issue. (My first posts had a totally different pipe plan in mind!)

 

[angedup]

thanks.