Training questions. Acops acs gas

[James79]

First post so please be gental....

I am looking in to getting back to being gas safe registered.
I 97/98 i was corgi registred but due to leaving the trade i didnt continue.
As i understand (arfter a phone call to Gas safe) i will need to re train to gain registtation. My Acops mean didley squat now but i was told that i could use them as evidence that i was competent.
Question is .. is this true or am i faced with trying to find someone to help me with the training. And having to spend ££££££££s


James

 

[ShaunCorbs]

tbh as it was such a long time ago alot of this have changed since then best bet would be requalification and training

 

[CHRISX]

Hello James,

As Shaun wrote there have been a lot of changes / updated Regulations and ACS Training & Assessments during the last 20 years.

You would still have to attain the CCN1 Core Gas Safety ACS Assessment and some Appliance ACS Assessments before registering with Gas Safe and as Shaun suggested I would also recommend that you undertake `Training & Assessment` to achieve that.

BUT - there are regulatory constraints now on who can just undertake `Training & Assessment` and then register with Gas Safe:

A very basic explanation is that only people who can prove that they are either previously very experienced in Gas work or are in an `Associated Occupation` [my wording] - e.g. Plumbing and are going through onsite / at work training and installation under supervision by a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer / Gas Installer and be building a Portfolio of `Gas Work` signed by their Gas Supervisor would be accepted by the various Training & Assessment providers to go through the Gas ACS Training & Assessments.

And then apply to Gas Safe when they attain the CCN1 and some Appliance ACS.

I have mentioned that because I would advise you to investigate whether your previously held Gas ACOPS [pre ACS] which expired many years ago will enable you to be accepted by Training & Assessment providers as a `previously experienced & registered Gas Installer` ?

Meaning that they would allow you to undertake Training / Assessments.

Have You still got the expired Gas ACOPS Certificates and CORGI ID Cards ?

IF Gas Safe / Training providers will NOT accept that you are an `experienced Gas Installer` who is returning to the Industry after a number of years I think that you might find yourself in a very awkward position regarding becoming a Gas Safe registered Gas Installer and returning to Gas work.

IF you are not accepted as a `previously experienced Gas Installer` and you have to take the same route as someone trying to enter the Gas Industry without any knowledge or experience - finding a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer / Installer who would be prepared to help you to build up a Portfolio of Gas Work might be difficult - as I am guessing would trying to do that by becoming employed by a Company.

Training & Assessment providers have to check the validity of the Portfolio and the Gas Work Supervisor who signs off the various items within the Portfolio - and these gas Work Portfolios have to take a certain structured form.

Without the satisfactory details of who / what Company is `training & supervising` a Gas Work trainee the Training provider can refuse to accept a person for Gas ACS Training or Assessments.

I wish You Luck with getting back into the Gas Industry - but whatever way it goes you will have to take the CCN1 Core Gas Safety and some Appliance Assessments - once again I [and Shaun] advise that you undergo a `Training & Assessments` package.

When You have investigated this further James could you please post a message on this thread to update Us on what you found out about the procedure for returning to the Gas Industry / Gas Safe registration after a long period away - we would really appreciate it.

I hope that this information is helpful - although I do realise that it may dismay You to read that returning to being registered as a Gas Installer may not be straightforward.

Chris

 

[snowhead]

I was originally ACOP, and yes it's changed for ACS.

The regs haven't changed a lot, but the assessments now are aimed at individuals whereas ACOP was more group orientated.

The problem you will have is you wouldn't need full re-training but would need more than just refresher as most people who renew need.

It will be difficault to find anywhere who would run training to suit your needs.

First call would be to where you last did your ACOP if they are still around, they may still have your records.

It doesn't look good with this from CITB;

Evidence of ‘off the job’ training and ‘on the job’ experience:

•name, address and the GAS SAFE REGISTER
registration number of the business(s) providing the training

•the start and end dates of the ‘off the job’ training
programme

•the start and end dates of the ‘on the job’ training programme and/or experience

•the types and sufficiency of gas work undertaken (not plumbing or other related work activities)

•the name(s) of the competent operative(s) of the business that has/have provided the ‘on the job’ training.

 

[CHRISX]

Hello snowhead,

You have given more good advice for the OP / James.

The quotes from the CITB are particularly helpful and will reinforce what I was trying to explain about his situation if the Training & Assessment providers do NOT accept his proof that he had been previously Trained & Assessed and was registered with CORGI as meaning that he can be accepted on their Courses & Assessments.

I agree with your comment about James probably not needing a `Full Re-Training` course - but also probably needing more than a `Reassessment refresher Training course with Assessments`.

However because of that my advice would be that he would really have no alternative but to undergo a `Full Training & Assessments Package` - to ensure that he gets back `up to speed` enough to guarantee passing the Assessments and regain all of the `Safety Knowledge` that We require to work with Gas.

As You know the Reassessment refresher training is a quick run through of the various Reassessment categories with a review of the changes that have occurred during the previous 5 years.

I have not needed to take any refresher training prior to Reassessments as I make sure that I read up on any Regulation changes / have kept up with the Gas Safe Technical Bulletins etc. - but I believe that it is carried out over 2 days at the College where I have taken most of my Gas ACS Assessments and Reassessments.

I cannot imagine that 2 or 3 days would EVER be long enough to enable James / ANY person returning to the Gas Industry after a long period of time to obtain the knowledge to pass the CCN1 and Appliance ACS - AND be able to retain enough knowledge to be Safe when working / dealing with various Gas Safety scenarios.

I remember taking the first ACS Assessments after the ACOPS became redundant and most of my group had problems with some of the questions - even with the `open book` scenario re. the CITB Manuals available for the assessments.

This was perceived by my colleagues at the College to be because there were `major changes` to the type of questions / the detailed written responses that were being asked on those ACS Assessments compared to the ACOPS that they had all `sailed through` 5 years previously.

I do remember the ACS Assessments being far more detailed than the ACOPS - I remember there being a full day of writing answers and detailed descriptions - and that there was never enough space in the boxes on the CITB Exam papers for me to write all of the details that I wanted to put down - thankfully that format was changed for my next 5 yearly ACS Reassessments.

I am not trying to decry Members knowledge and expertise regarding them passing the Gas ACOPS in the 1990`s / early 2000`s with my next comments:

At that time anyone could sign up for Training and Assessments - there was no requirement to have any background in Plumbing - Pipefitting or even be experienced in DIY !

During my initial ACOPS Assessments and Reassessments then we had people from various jobs taking the Assessments `to become a Gas Engineer in 2 weeks` - Minicab drivers - Painters - Office workers - Delivery drivers - the list would be extensive if I could remember them all.

In my opinion those Gas ACOPS were impossible to fail unless the person ran out of time which I did witness a couple of times.

During the years that the Gas ACOPS were all that was required to register with CORGI and having witnessed the LACK of knowledge and TOTAL LACK of on the tools experience of some of the people who passed them and went on to register with CORGI as a `Gas Installer` I was appalled at the situation.

I would state that was the most dangerous period for Gas Safety that has ever existed apart from obviously before there was a mandatory Gas Safety register / CORGI registration - when there was NO control over who was working with Gas.

There were thousands of people some [most ?] who had no technical background or pipework experience who became `Gas Installers` after just about 2 weeks of Training & Assessment !

Personally I would state that there would now be a `BIG difference` between the Gas ACOPS of the 1990`s and the Gas ACS of today.

James - I am NOT trying to put you off getting back into the Gas Industry and my comments about the Gas ACOPS of the 1990`s and early 2000`s are not aimed at you or any of our other Members.

Good Luck.

Chris

 

[James79]

Thanks guys sounds like i expected and will have to start fresh .. I am fairly well up on all the reg changes as i have kept on top buy reading up online and before this i would read my uncles trade mags when i visited him .
Suppose the next question is whos the best training provider ive seen ableskills advertise

 

[CHRISX]

-Hello again James,

Sorry that my messages on your thread have been so `detailed` / long winded - I know that a wall of text can be daunting to read and take in.

However - the main thing that I wanted to explain was that if the Training providers do NOT accept that You are eligible to just undertake `Training & Assessment` because you used to be a CORGI registered Gas Installer and had previously attained the Gas ACOPS that you held - You would not be allowed to just undertake Training & Assessment.

If You re-read my original reply and Member snowhead`s message you will see that there could be a problem getting to take the necessary Training & Assessments IF the Training provider does NOT accept that you are entitled to be still classed as a `returning Gas Installer`

Again - I wish you Good Luck.

Chris

 

[James79]

Hi Chris
I do understand and already have in place a work placement with a gas safe engineer who who is happy to help me build a portfolio . I know this is going to take time but im in no rush so if its full training and assesment thats what it has to be .. it is just annoying that i have to go through the whole process again but then its my own fault for leaving the trade

 

[CHRISX]

Hi Chris
I do understand and already have in place a work placement with a gas safe engineer who who is happy to help me build a portfolio . I know this is going to take time but im in no rush so if its full training and assesment thats what it has to be .. it is just annoying that i have to go through the whole process again but then its my own fault for leaving the trade

Hello James,

Thanks for letting Me / Us know that You already knew about the possible scenario about needing to be able to submit a Portfolio and the details of the Gas Engineer / Installer who will be supervising the Gas work examples which will make up your Portfolio to a Training & Assessment provider - IF you need to.

Please don`t think that I am being funny with this comment - I assure you that I am not:

Can you imagine how much less text that I would have typed in my second message / reply to Member snowhead if I had known that you already knew most of what I had written in my first reply to you.

As I can only type using one finger it would have taken much less time.

However - I expect that this will give some of our Members a good laugh.

Perhaps my detailed replies and those from Members Shaun and snowhead will be helpful to other readers who are wanting to return to the Gas Industry / would like to be able to undertake Gas Training & Assessments.

I wish You well in returning to the Gas Industry.

Chris

 

[James79]

No offence taken but it was only confirmed today that it was going to be possible for me to work alongside to build a portfolio

 

[CHRISX]

MESSAGE DELETED - IT DID NOT APPEAR AFTER I SUBMITTED IT SO I WROTE THE MESSAGE BELOW - AFTER I SUBMITTED THE MESSAGE BELOW THIS ONE WAS PRESENT

CHRIS

 

[CHRISX]

Hello James,

I meant no offence or sarcasm - I had no way of knowing that it was only Today that you arranged for a Gas Engineer to oversee you building a Portfolio.

From your comment I thought that you already knew most of what I and Member snowhead had written about the situation IF a Training & Assessment provider would NOT accept that you are an `experienced Gas Installer` who is returning to the Industry.

Can I take it as obvious that you will still investigate whether a Training & Assessment provider would class you as `experienced in Gas work` and allow you to take the Full training & Assessment package - if you want to go that way ?

Although it should NOT be like this - I think that Colleges that offer Gas ACS might be stricter with their interpretation of `previously experienced and registered Gas Installer` than some of the Companies that offer the Gas ACS Training & Assessment - ?

Sometimes Colleges have a very strict `eligibility policy` and their Admin Staff follow it to the letter.

The College where I have taken most of my Gas ACS / Unvented Hot Water / Water Regulations and Electrical ACOPS [1997] and CORGI Defined Scope Part P Electrical Installation [2005] has an ex Heating, Plumbing & Gas Contractor as the Plumbing & Gas Training & Assessment department Manager.

Although there are still young women carrying out the Booking / Admin work - decisions on situations such as yours would be ruled upon by Him - not the admin staff - although he would try to help the person he would obviously still have to follow the `Rules` appertaining to the circumstances.

I am guessing that at Colleges where the Gas ACS Training & Assessment department Manager has NOT been involved in the Gas Industry / Plumbing & Heating you might find that `our eligibility rules` are more strictly enforced by the Admin staff than perhaps a Company might and their interpretation could cause them prohibit you from just undertaking Training & Assessment ?

In your situation I would be contacting some of the Companies rather than Colleges - it might be possible to have them deem you a `returning / experienced Gas Installer` ?

Good Luck James in getting back into the Gas Industry.

Chris

 

[James79]

Right then just a update

So arfter many hours on hold and talking to people it seems that as expected if Im going to have any chance of becoming Gas safe registered im going to have to start from fresh so best i start saving the pennys

 

[CHRISX]

Right then just a update

So arfter many hours on hold and talking to people it seems that as expected if Im going to have any chance of becoming Gas safe registered im going to have to start from fresh so best i start saving the pennys

Hello again James,

Thanks for the update.

I hope that the comments on here from other Members and myself have helped in some way - I was fairly sure that You would end up having to start again to get back into working with Gas but I did not want to state that categorically previously because I did not want to dishearten You.

Obviously there will be quite a lot of information to revise and some Regulation changes to learn since You were a Registered Gas Installer but I am sure that because of your previous experience you will pass all of the Gas ACS that you want to achieve.

You mentioned previously that you have arranged to work with a Registered Gas Engineer / Installer to build your Portfolio of Gas work - that should be easy for you because of your previous experience and is a great result because without that facility you would probably have found it impossible to re-enter the `Gas Industry`.

Regarding the `Training & Assessment` cost - from some prices that I have seen recently that will be quite a lot of money.

Good Luck with your Training & Assessments.

It would be good if you could come back to this thread and let Us know how you are getting on during the process as your comments might help future readers who are in a similar situation to you - or who would like to try and become a Gas Installer.

Chris