Unexplained water usage overnight ...

[SandraKJ]

Hello Everyone. I'm back! It's been a year since my original post and I still haven't managed to resolve the mysterious water usage in my home. It's driving me nuts as I just can't figure out what's going on and Thames Water aren't interested. I've attached some screenshots from over the Christmas period. I was away from Christmas Eve until the afternoon of the 27th December so there should have been no water consumption at all from 5pm on 24/12/22 until 5pm on 27/12/22. You'll see that there is a tiny amount being recorded during the afternoon/evening and I accept that I may have a small leak somewhere BUT there is a consistently large amount being used every night from 1am - 8am when I wasn't at home. The profile leads me to think that there must be something on a timer somewhere as the amount of water being "used" increases over a few hours and then tails off but I don't have anything in my home that would account for this. I was wondering if it might be a legacy issue from when the builders replaced the old back-boiler with a new Worcester Bosch combi-boiler some 10+ years ago but surely that would have all been capped off / disabled at the time. Anyone got any ideas as currently I'm "consuming" more water overnight than I actually "use" during the day. I really don't want to have to get an engineer out to investigate and to have all my lovely oak flooring ripped up in the process. Thanks for reading ...

 

[Chuck]

Here's the original thread:

Mysterious Water Usage | USA Plumbers Advice | Plumbers Forums

Find Mysterious Water Usage Advice and Help. How-to Mysterious Water Usage in the USA Plumbers Advice advice boards on Plumbers Talk | Plumbing Advice | Plumbing Forum - Professional and DIY Plumbers and Bathroom Fitters Forum. Mysterious Water Usage

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Most of the usual diagnostic questions were asked and answered a year ago so I doubt you'll get the matter fixed without someone doing an on-site investigation. There are leak-finding firms who specialise in locating hidden leaks.

"I really don't want to have to get an engineer out to investigate and to have all my lovely oak flooring ripped up in the process."

Ripping up expensive flooring wouldn't be the first move for someone who knows what they are doing. If it's proved that's where the leak is then it will probably be possible to isolate the existing service pipe and run a new one that uses another route. A flooring company may be able to work with the plumber so that if a section of the floor does have to be taken up it is done in a way that allows a subsequent 'invisible' repair.

 

[SandraKJ]

Here's the original thread:

Mysterious Water Usage | USA Plumbers Advice | Plumbers Forums

Find Mysterious Water Usage Advice and Help. How-to Mysterious Water Usage in the USA Plumbers Advice advice boards on Plumbers Talk | Plumbing Advice | Plumbing Forum - Professional and DIY Plumbers and Bathroom Fitters Forum. Mysterious Water Usage

www.plumbersforums.net

Most of the usual diagnostic questions were asked and answered a year ago so I doubt you'll get the matter fixed without someone doing an on-site investigation. There are leak-finding firms who specialise in locating hidden leaks.

"I really don't want to have to get an engineer out to investigate and to have all my lovely oak flooring ripped up in the process."

Ripping up expensive flooring wouldn't be the first move for someone who knows what they are doing. If it's proved that's where the leak is then it will probably be possible to isolate the existing service pipe and run a new one that uses another route.

The thing is Chuck that it can't be a leak as the water that's being consumed is all overnight between 1am - 8am and follows a distinct pattern, rising from 1am and peaking at 4-5am and then dropping back to zero by 9am. The water usage during the day is totally as expected. Any idea of what kind of firm I should be looking for to do an on-site investigation?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Start turning your toilets off one by one until you see it stop etc

 

[Chuck]

The thing is Chuck that it can't be a leak as the water that's being consumed is all overnight between 1am - 8am and follows a distinct pattern, rising from 1am and peaking at 4am and then dropping back to zero by 8am.

It's not a constant leak such as would arise from a pin-hole but there are other types. Some types of cracks open and close depending on pressure and temperature. Large trees have roots that affect the ground in a manner that varies over the course of a day, etc.

There are lots of things one can do to track down this sort of problem but they aren't really DIY and they require kit that not many plumbers have on their van.

Any idea of what kind of firm I should be looking for to do an on-site investigation?

Google "Leak finding specialists London" and have a chat to them by phone first. Some of them may offer a domestic customer a fixed fee service on a no-find no-fee basis but times are tight and they have to make a living.

 

[SandraKJ]

Start turning your toilets off one by one until you see it stop etc

Thanks @ShaunCorbs ... I've had the toilet checked by a plumber recently when I had some new radiators installed and there was no leak - also bought the dye tablets that you put in your cistern to check for any leaks overnight but there was nothing. I remain convinced that it's not a leak as I was away for 3 days with zero water usage being recorded at all during the day - just the same scenario that I've now had for 3 years where water is being "consumed between midnight and 8am. I'm baffled. Thanks for your advice as I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere.

 

[SandraKJ]

It's not a constant leak such as would arise from a pin-hole but there are other types. Some types of cracks open and close depending on pressure and temperature. Large trees have roots that affect the ground in a manner that varies over the course of a day, etc.

There are lots of things one can do to track down this sort of problem but they aren't really DIY and they require kit that not many plumbers have on their van.


Google "Leak finding specialists London" and have a chat to them by phone first. Some of them may offer a domestic customer a fixed fee service on a no-find no-fee basis but times are tight and they have to make a living.

Thanks for the great advice @Chuck - I'll contact a few companies and will keep you posted. Appreciate your help.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks @ShaunCorbs ... I've had the toilet checked by a plumber recently when I had some new radiators installed and there was no leak - also bought the dye tablets that you put in your cistern to check for any leaks overnight but there was nothing. I remain convinced that it's not a leak as I was away for 3 days with zero water usage being recorded at all during the day - just the same scenario that I've now had for 3 years where water is being "consumed between midnight and 8am. I'm baffled. Thanks for your advice as I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere.

Have you tried turning your internal stop tap off ?

 

[SandraKJ]

Have you tried turning your internal stop tap off ?

Yes, I have @ShaunCorbs and it continues to record the same water usage every night. :-(

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes, I have @ShaunCorbs and it continues to record the same water usage every night. :-(

So it’s not internal so either leak externally or someone else it tapped into your supply

Leak seaker required

Might be worth contacting someone like This

 

[SandraKJ]

So it’s not internal so either leak externally or someone else it tapped into your supply

Leak seaker required

Might be worth contacting someone like This

Thanks @ShaunCorbs ... I've already had the smart meter replaced as Thames Water originally thought that I may have been spurred with my neighbour so that's now been ruled out. Thames Water are saying that there must be a leak between the street and the stopcock under the kitchen sink but I'm not convinced. Can you post the URL here please as I'm getting "page not found". Thanks for taking the time to try and help me resolve this - it's hugely appreciated. Happy New Year!

 

[PETE 123]

Could it be a water softner highly efficient softeners may generate every day or even multiple times a day.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It’s blocked by the filter best I can do

If you Google the leak detective uk should be the same as picture below

 

[SandraKJ]

Thanks @ShaunCorbs ... I've already had the smart meter replaced as Thames Water originally thought that I may have been spurred with my neighbour so that's now been ruled out. Thames Water are saying that there must be a leak between the street and the stopcock under the kitchen sink but I'm not convinced. Can you post the URL here please as I'm getting "page not found". Thanks for taking the time to try and help me resolve this - it's hugely appreciated. Happy New Year!

Another random thought ... could it be something to do with the old back-boiler not having been properly disconnected? I'm wondering if the old system worked on the "Economy 7" type heating style we used to have back in the day where it runs overnight. Sounds crazy I guess, but that's how mad it's driven me that I'm clutching at anything to try and understand this.

 

[SandraKJ]

https://m.************/theleakdetectiveuk/

Thanks Shaun.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Could it be a water softner highly efficient softeners may generate every day or even multiple times a day.

Still happens if the main internal stop tap is off so I wouldn’t say it was

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Another random thought ... could it be something to do with the old back-boiler not having been properly disconnected? I'm wondering if the old system worked on the "Economy 7" type heating style we used to have back in the day where it runs overnight. Sounds crazy I guess, but that's how mad it's driven me that I'm clutching at anything to try and understand this.

Only way would be if it’s refilling a tank in the loft etc

 

[SandraKJ]

Only way would be if it’s refilling a tank in the loft etc

Nope - the tank in the loft is definitely disconnected and redundant.

 

[SandraKJ]

It’s blocked by the filter best I can do

If you Google the leak detective uk should be the same as picture below

Perfect - thanks @ShaunCorbs ...

 

[Deleted member 120897]

If it’s being recorded when internal stopcock is closed, then surely it makes sense to be on the supply only?

 

[IND_Nick]

You said these reading come from a smart meter? I've never seen a smart water meter, are you able to read a physical display yourself? If so you could isolate the water at night and check the reading in the morning. A lot of these meters use a radio type signals that can be prone to interference possibly supplying false readings, not sure why it would only do this at night though, unless you user interface is picking up another meters signal?

 

[SandraKJ]

If it’s being recorded when internal stopcock is closed, then surely it makes sense to be on the supply only?

I've no idea, @ChrisB1982 - here's the reading for New Year's Day and I was away from home the night before and didn't get back until 4pm so shouldn't have any water usage being recorded before then. :-(

 

[SandraKJ]

You said these reading come from a smart meter? I've never seen a smart water meter, are you able to read a physical display yourself? If so you could isolate the water at night and check the reading in the morning. A lot of these meters use a radio type signals that can be prone to interference possibly supplying false readings, not sure why it would only do this at night though, unless you user interface is picking up another meters signal?

Hello @IND_Nick ... thanks for your thoughts on this. Yes, I can see the physical display myself and I've isolated the water at the mains in the street over the period of a week. When I do that, I get no water consumption showing overnight. However, if I isolate from the stopcock in the kitchen, the overnight readings persist. The smart meter has been changed but the overnight usage has continued to be the same. The profile of the readings shows a distinct peak every night so makes me think it's something that's on a timer but nothing in my home uses water overnight. It's driving me nuts and costing me money for water that's literally going down the drain. Example below for when I wasn't even at home. :-(

 

[Ben-gee]

You say there is no usage when off in the street, but there is usage when off at the house stopcock.
Therefore there is either a tee off before your house stopcock, or a leak between house and street, or your house stopcock doesn’t function properly.

Turn off the house stopcock and then go to each and every source of water you have and verify that they have stopped.

Report back.

 

[Timmy D]

Irrigation system or pond? Yours or neighbours?