Unsecured turret - Boiler at risk

[mattfine]

Hello everyone,
I would like to hear your opinions on my situation.


I have been with the AA for an annual boiler service since 2011, when I first purchased my flat. Since then, I never had an issue with my boiler, but this year some issues arose. The previous inspections until this year's were alaways passed without a problem. Previous annual services were always with AA-approved contractors until this year, when AA engineers visited my flat. The flat is covered by an NHBC insurance scheme, in its 5th year. We have a Glowworm ndensing boiler ultracom Sxi18.


Based on the AA checks, the engineers claim that the turret is not secured properly to the boiler box and they have to classify the boiler as at risk. They say that they have noticed the flame of a match moving when in proximity of the turret. There are some marks around the turret. However when they performed a check to measure the levels of CO in the room the results came up ok. Moreover, the fact that the boiler is a condensing boiler helps because of the negative pressure. One of the engineers said that the issues might be addressed by simply tightening the screws that should seal the screws against the box, however there is not sufficient space to fit in a screwdriver because there is the top shelf of the boiler cupboard.


I am wondering what I can/should do in this case?
I am wondering why this has never been picked up on in previous inspections? Should I complain to the AA regarding this or should I claim it against the NHBC insurance scheme as the flue issue is linked to an installation problem?


In order to solve this I guess we would have to clear the area around the turret by removing the top shelf, which will require to remove the entire cupboard and breaking the wall. All this is sure to be expensive.


Would there be an easier solution? Of course I want to have the "at risk" removed. I guess I will need another inspection after the turret problem is rectified by an engineer?




Any ideas are appreciated!


Thanks


Matt

 

[lame plumber]

forget complaing to the aa and forget nhbc claim, neither will come to anything. get in an independant gsr to do the work required to ensure your flue is safe, there is possibility of leakage and evidence of rust so something is wrong. re the cupboard, its to small and needs to go anyhow, how are we expected to access and service a boiler in that situation anyhow? Cnat see a need to break any walls, just take he cupboard apart and resolve what could be a lethal situation that probably should have resulted in cutting off your boiler until it was rectified! basically sort it NOW

 

[Phil_Plumb]

that flue turret looks like it is improperly seated ergo improperly sealed. If thats the case your boiler could be leaking CO into the house.

Whats more important? the cost of taking down a cupboard- which IMHO should never be put so close to a boiler like that - or not waking up the next day or you coming home from work to find loved ones have died from CO poisoning!


all for the sake of taking down a cupboard.


CO its a tasteless colourless silent killer!

 

[dancinplumba]

The engineer who says simply tightening the screws is wrong the is evidence of corrosion from turret/flue. Get a decent gas safe registered installer in as soon as possible and ditch the AA cover waste of money . post location on here and someone on here will check it out for you

 

[mattfine]

Thanks a lot for your answers. Much appreciated.
just a couple of points.

- the corrosion marks might be linked to water coming in during storms. We have regularly put some cloth whenever there were storms, not regular rain to prevent this.

- I am in London, N1

Since it's the initial installation that is faulty, whom could I complain with?

I understand that removing the cupboard would be the ideal solution. What if I get rid of a big chunk of the shelf around the turret (say 5 inches each side)? Would that be enough to fix the sealing of the turret?

Of course I will have a gas safe engineer, would appreciate if a good gas safe plumber from the area gets in touch.

Thanks

matt

 

[tamz]

The corrosion marks are due to (rain)water running back the flue (it's the way they are designed).
Flues aren't water tight so if water gets into them they will leak and the cheap steel used on the flue components (especially vaillant group) doesn't take much to get it rusting. This is one of these things where it may have been fine when fitted and it may have been fine last year but this year it is not. Metal moves with changing temperatures.
Get it looked at by a decent gas reg guy who could take the wall unit down in 5 minutes and inspect and rectify it accordingly.
Also as advised previously, self insure. Stick your £20 a month or whatever in a biscuit tin and get independents to look at you boiler as and when required.

 

[jtsplumbing]

If you still have it , look in the installation and servicing book, it will tell you min clearance on top of boiler, 150mm, but flue needs sorting asap.

 

[moogwai]

I would say my fellow aa engineer has done what any of us wouldve done so fair play to him.

Plainly obvious an installation/materials issue and the previous contractors shouldve picked the problem up on their visits.

 

[mattfine]

Thanks again for your feedback. I really appreciate your suggestions.


I noticed that the outlet pipe has a downward slope which clearly favours water ingress and we raised this already in the past with our freeholder. I understand there is a safety concern here of which I am liable as owner/occupier, but it was clearly bad installation practice from the builder. I am wondering if there is there any regulation with regards to outlet pipe angle?


And even if we fix the turret seal, corrosion will possibly continue because the pipe is on a slight downward slope and water will continue dripping in storms, don't you think?

Do you think it's not worth raising it with NHBC with which I have a cover in its 4th year? Cupboard removal will require the removal of some electric wires, lights and AA engineer advised that part of the plaster would need to come off as well. Once the cupboard has been removed then the turret needs to be checked and fixed. All this can be a very expensive job especially in central London. And if we need to change the angle of the outlet pipe that is going to be even more expensive. Of course I want to address this as my and my neighbours' safety could be at risk, but I am not willing to pay for the builder's installation mistakes and oversights from AA contractors!

Thanks again.

M.

 

[SimonG]

Flue needs to slope to allow any condensate within the flue to run back into the boiler and expelled through the condensate discharge.

Sounds like fair wear and tear, stop trying to apportion blame and get it sorted. Sometimes nobody is to blame, that's life.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

It won't hurt to get in touch with the house builder directly or the NHBC, you never know you just might get something from them - but that sort of thing can drag on - it could be next year before you get a result!
Don't wait to address urgent safety issues.

Take photos as evidence - good you already have - and you've got good advice here from gsr guys to add to your case.

I don't think you will get any joy from the AA - this is not the first time I've heard of stories like this about those kind of schemes.
An independent gsr engineer is the best bet and if you plan to live in that area for years to come find someone local to you.

 

[Jimbob]

. Of course I want to address this as my and my neighbours' safety could be at risk, but I am not willing to pay for the builder's installation mistakes and oversights from AA contractors!

Thanks again.

M.

It's your house isn't it?

Hasn't been picked up by the installer or AA until now. Just going to have to sort it, not really alot of work.

 

[moogwai]

The engineer who says simply tightening the screws is wrong the is evidence of corrosion from turret/flue. Get a decent gas safe registered installer in as soon as possible and ditch the AA cover waste of money . post location on here and someone on here will check it out for you

are you implying i'm not decent?? lol

 

[mattfine]

How much space would you actually need around the turret to check and eventually replace seal? I am trying to minimize the disruption/costs. Of course I know that it would be better without the Cupboard but that is not an option at this stage. Please don't advise simply to "get it sorted", that is the whole point of my post! I am trying to find the most efficient way.


Also, is there any gas safety engineer serving London N1 on here?

 

[jtsplumbing]

How much space would you actually need around the turret to check and eventually replace seal? I am trying to minimize the disruption/costs. Of course I know that it would be better without the Cupboard but that is not an option at this stage. Please don't advise simply to "get it sorted", that is the whole point of my post! I am trying to find the most efficient way.


Also, is there any gas safety engineer serving London N1 on here?

By the most efficient way ! you mean cheep, what price do you put on your Life !! Lots of people in the Cemetery that did things the most efficient way. :wings:

 

[mattfine]

By the most efficient way ! you mean cheep, what price do you put on your Life !! Lots of people in the Cemetery that did things the most efficient way. :wings:

Posts like this do not help.

It's not an immediate risk! They did carry out gas analysis and ambient CO measuring and both tests were passed. The issue that the AA engineers noticed was the rust and the fact they could see some slight movement in the match's flame when put close to the turret. They wanted to tighten the screws of the turret but they did not have good access to screws and therefore marked it as at risk and left.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i cover n1 pm me