Unvented course

[helpsy]

Hi All
Just embarking on a BPEC Domestic Unvented Hot Water Storage Systems course.I am wondering how many people in the trade are legally ticketed to carry out work on these systems or do most people just work on them without it.

 

[david williams]

this is tipical of training in the plumbing industry. in my experience of late bpec unvented is not worth the paper it is printed on.though many plumbers do have this training,many i have come across do not seem to have understood what they learned on the course.

 

[secret squirrel]

Hello Helpsy,

I worked on a megaflo the other day, apparently, I was the 3rd plumber to attempt the repair.

Before working on it, I did my research on their website and looked at the manual, which I seem to do more and more in this job! before this I always wondered why manuals were included in boxes.

I'm Bpec unvented, I'm sure there are loads of plumbers who work on these systems unqualified, I'm sure there are a fair few that work on gas when they shouldn't as well.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Technically anything over 15 litres is classed as unvented. But how many people work on combis, which usually have well over 15 litres in the system?

Unvented ticket is either a daft requirement or people who install combis should be unvented ticketed.

When the unvented first came out over here, because of the amount of water in an unvented cylinder, people where scared stiff an unvented cylinder may explode at some time, so they brought in a specific unvented ticket.

Perhaps they should drop it now, seeing as how so many combis have been installed which probably hold well over 15 litres?

Its also said, that gas work training was brought out, when electricity was just as bad, because people did not understand the dangers of gas but they did electricity, and would not mess with it so readily as they would gas.

Mind you I still wonder if there where as many accidents before the training came in, as there are after it.

It was Ronan Point that really started it, when a block of flats blew up. I never really heard whether that was a gas system design fault or faulty installation. In other words did somebody design the system wrong or did the fitters make a bad job of fitting it in or was it somebody mucking about with the installation who did not know what they where doing.

If it was somebody mucking about with gas and not the people who put it in.

How are you going to stop that?

Don't people still do it, even with all the training required for GaSafe registration?

The problem is, as training gets dearer then to recover costs the gas fitter puts up prices. Which makes jobs even more expensive to get done, so the more likely people may have a go at gas work themselves to avoid the cost.

 

[Plouasne]

Ronan Point, I remember it well, a crappy design (Danish by the way, and in Denmark gas would not be allowed in a design like that over 3 stories high), a pack of cards design, concrete slabs stacked one on top of the other vertically with the vertical slab being bedded in a mortar joint and held together with a few bolts
A mate of mine at the time was a NTGB fitter, who told me that it was somebody who wanted to move a gas cooker, and cracked the socket when tightening the fitting up, gas weaped from the cracked fitting, and built up in the airing cupboard, when the immersion heater thermostat on the cylinder either made or broke it caused an arc, result BOOM, and down it ll fell, I believe that google has some nice results of the "accident"
CORGI was brought in by some "shysters" who saw a way of making money out of this, rather than being a safety authority, and had the ear of the then government, who had to be seen as to be doing something about the accident
In my opinion training bodies and regulatory/inspection bodies, should by law be a non-profit making body, similar to the French Loi of 1901, the French have both Gas and Electrical inspections before the service is inspected, which are thorough and can last an hour or more for an inspection, also the French government is the training body for adult training, the plumbing course for an adult re-training lasts 18 months full time in a training establishment
Sorry to keep on about France, but having seen both sides of the channel and how they work, I am impressed with what the French do, and how they do it
The costs of an inspection are about 80€ for an approved installer, and about double for a D I Y job, and if a D I Y job does not pass first time the same amount for a re-test
The first job I did on Propane in France, from bulk tank to first regulator/cut off valve by the house, was a 3bar test for half an hour, then from the regulator/cut off valve was about the same time but at 37mbar, another one was for natural gas, and from the meter was 28mbar for 15 mins
An electrics test is just as thorough, test the earth impedance, check all the points and switches, inspect the fuse board, test the earth on all the sockets, and this was done by an outside inspector who knew the installer and knew his work for over 15 years, the only difference was that the installer, had only been an artisan for 2 years, before that he had worked for a company for 12 years apprentice and operative rising to become the electrical side manager, before going out on his own
Safety rules, are last one in is responsible for the safe working of the installation, if a fault is found, a do not use or a condemned label is placed on the appliance, and it is turned off, if found to be dangerous the supply is cut off, with a do not use until fault is rectified label attached, dated and signed, by the person who finds the fault, if the owner/occupier decides to re-instate the supply the onus falls on that person if there is a problem later, and not the operative