Unvented Hot Water Course

[cr0ft]

Hi all.

Doing my BPEC Unvented course/exam next Friday. The books are arriving early next week. Has anyone got any tips for passing first time? Is it a difficult course?

 

[SimonG]

Here's a quick overview of mine a few months ago:-

08.30 - Arrive and complete admin.
09.45 - Go through powerpoint presentation, quick demonstration on sizing D2. Followed by going through 3 examples and sizing it yourself.
10.45 - Into workshop to Commission and Service a number of units including fault finding. Done in groups.
11.40 - Start open book paper of 27 mulitple choice questions.
11.55 - In van and on my way back home.

Full day course that as well £216 including vat and certification.

To be honest i didn't learn anything that I hadn't seen in any manufacturers instructions other than you can now discharge into a plastic soil stack using a hepvo waste.

I wouldn't sweat it. I know it's not the right question, but have you fitted any?

 

[fuzzy]

not hard, its designed to train more than to pass or fail good course, more people should do it
can i ask what it cost please? is it the new one with vented as well?

 

[kirkgas]

you will pay anywhere from £100-200 plus a cert fee plus vat, only the english version has changed to include vented and units under 15L, we are still using the 2009 version up here

 

[SafeGasInstall]

any kid over 7 years old will pass it ! dont stress ur self mate

 

[cr0ft]

Its £195+VAT down here in Hampshire. SimonG, I've fitted one myself before with the gas fitter I used to use giving it the 'thumbs up' so to speak. A lot of it just seems common sense, like running the PRV outlet through a tundish and downhill etc.

 

[cr0ft]

Out of curiosity how many days labour do you think it would be to replace a vented copper cylinder with an unvented one? Both are indirect cylinders and all the required pipes are of course already in the airing cupboard.

 

[SimonG]

No more than a day, but depends on daft things like does the existing cylinder have a drain off, routing the discharge pipework, does the existing system have trouble refilling through air locks, size of and flow through mcw feed etc.

 

[kirkgas]

Out of curiosity how many days labour do you think it would be to replace a vented copper cylinder with an unvented one? Both are indirect cylinders and all the required pipes are of course already in the airing cupboard.

3-4hrs plus D2 pipe, (which can be anywhere from 0.5-4hrs as well depending on route and position of cylinder in relation to external wall or waste stack)

 

[dontknowitall]

Tip for learning for exam would be to download a manufacturer's instructions and learn the diagram from stop tap to cylinder to discharge pipes and hot water outlet.

 

[kirkgas]

Tip for learning for exam would be to download a manufacturer's instructions and learn the diagram from stop tap to cylinder to discharge pipes and hot water outlet.

its a good idea to have a look at MI before you go, but trainer goes over it enough for you to pass, it is all open book and you simply have to identify the controls on a diagram that is exactly the same as the labelled one in the training notes, then you need to identify 5 installation faults, on a real install using what you know of how it should be done and what is in front of you, easy peasy

 

[cr0ft]

Kirkgas,

I got the books today. Nothing seems to bad. Is the exam open book??

 

[cr0ft]

Sorry just read your last post and got my answer - seems like I can't delete my posts!

 

[cr0ft]

3-4hrs plus D2 pipe, (which can be anywhere from 0.5-4hrs as well depending on route and position of cylinder in relation to external wall or waste stack)

Cool. Going slightly off topic, the cylinder I will be installing is right against an external wall so no problems with running the discharge pipe there. I do have a question regarding the existing installation though. I've measured flow rate coming into the property (at the kitchen tap so I know this is going to be restricted by the bore of the tap) at 20L/m. This flow is maintained even when I open the cloakroom tap too (all cold taps are direct fed at the moment). Mains pressure is over 6.5 bars, the pressure gauge blew off the tap at 6.5 bars and it was shooting up past that. I would guestimate around 10 bars.

I know from the MI that I will have to use a pressure reducing valve to drop the incoming cold feed to the cylinder to 3 bars. The only issue is the incoming mains to the house is in 15mm as opposed to 22mm. There is one bath and one shower in the house. From the experience you guys have, do you think this will cause a problem with the hot water flow rates from these outlets? I.E if someone is running a bath and shower at the same time?

I've told the homeowner we may need to upgrade the mains and pipework to the new cylinder to 22mm if it is a problem but would like to hear from plumbers more experienced than me in this area!

 

[SimonG]

All the cylinders I've put in come with the prv, you get the cylinder and an 'installation kit' which normally includes prv, 2 port valve, tundish, expansion vessel and bracket etc. If pressure and flow are good I increase to 22mm on the cold feed as soon as I can and then go from there.

 

[unguided1]

Having read this thread I completely agree that the unvented course is easy to pass and gain a qualification, but what does worry me is the amount of self certified cylinders that I go to where the installer has clearly not followed the MIs and completely forgotten how dangerous unvented can be, for example PRV and PTRV facing upwards or not connected to regs, Expansion vessels installed in the wrong place, for example I have seen them installed onto the balance pipe outlet on the group set, installed the wrong side of the group set and in some cases not installed at all, Lever valves installed onto the outlet of the cylinder. I could go on but you get the idea,

I feel a lot of these courses are not fit for purpose, they are fine for attaining a qualification but is a one day course enough to teach anyone the true dangers of an unvented bomb

 

[cr0ft]

Having read this thread I completely agree that the unvented course is easy to pass and gain a qualification, but what does worry me is the amount of self certified cylinders that I go to where the installer has clearly not followed the MIs and completely forgotten how dangerous unvented can be, for example PRV and PTRV facing upwards or not connected to regs, Expansion vessels installed in the wrong place, for example I have seen them installed onto the balance pipe outlet on the group set, installed the wrong side of the group set and in some cases not installed at all, Lever valves installed onto the outlet of the cylinder. I could go on but you get the idea,

I feel a lot of these courses are not fit for purpose, they are fine for attaining a qualification but is a one day course enough to teach anyone the true dangers of an unvented bomb

+1 to this. I think that this is a huge problem in the plumbing industry as I sort of hit on in the open forum in response to a person leaving the armed forces. I feel that so much emphasis is placed on experience in the industry because the qualifications themselves are far too easy (and thus next to worthless). I've read through the book supplied with the unvented course now and if it weren't for my engineering degree I would have quite a few holes in my knowledge with regards to installing these. As you rightly say they can be bombs if installed incorrectly.

If these courses are just a tick in the box so that you can be sued in court if you get it wrong then they probably achieve the result. As for being proper training courses, I'm not so sure.

Can anyone explain to me (other than the legal requirement to do so) why I have to register with a competent person scheme when I have completed a course that is supposed to say I am competent? I'm not really sure what this is about other than a money-making scam.

Ok, I'm off my soap box now