upgrade of water supply pipe to house

[georgeturner]

I wondered if anyone would like to share their experiences of upgrading the mains water pipe to their property. Mine still has the 1902 lead pipe (is it likely this is old 3/4 inch?) and I think an upgrade would improve the flow rate. Last year I did away with the tanks and went in for direct supply to all the taps - hence the issue.

If I do go for the upgrade what size pipe should I get installed? We have a newish water meter right on the boundary with the pavement, so I assume the new blue plastic pipe could be connected directly to it.

Thanks,
George

 

[chrisd28]

Hi George, i am about to do this myself as well. If you look on your water providers website and search for lead replacement, the info should be there, but a quick summary for you is this.
contact water board, tell them you want to change from lead supply. They will come and tell you where the new pipe has to be laid, depths insulation and conduit etc. once agreed, you or a plumber can do the work, they come back and inspect it, you then fill the trench in and they come back to connect up at your boundary. you are responsible for supplying upto stopcock from your boundary.
25mm blue mdpe is what they will require. They will also ask that you remove your branch of the lead supply. This will probably need to be cut and capped off quite close to the tee to prevent dead leg of stagnant water for other users if you are on a common supply.
hope this helps
anyone out there know about capping off branch, i would appreciate a bit of info
thanks
chris

 

[Plouasne]

Hi George, i am about to do this myself as well. If you look on your water providers website and search for lead replacement, the info should be there, but a quick summary for you is this.
contact water board, tell them you want to change from lead supply. They will come and tell you where the new pipe has to be laid, depths insulation and conduit etc. once agreed, you or a plumber can do the work, they come back and inspect it, you then fill the trench in and they come back to connect up at your boundary. you are responsible for supplying upto stopcock from your boundary.
25mm blue mdpe is what they will require. They will also ask that you remove your branch of the lead supply. This will probably need to be cut and capped off quite close to the tee to prevent dead leg of stagnant water for other users if you are on a common supply.
hope this helps
anyone out there know about capping off branch, i would appreciate a bit of info
thanks
chris

I would be inclined to go for 32 mm poly, especially if the pressure/flow rate is not all that good, even more so if you are now with an unvented or combi system

Chris, I do not understand this comment,
They will also ask that you remove your branch of the lead supply. This will probably need to be cut and capped off quite close to the tee to prevent dead leg of stagnant water for other users if you are on a common supply.
hope this helps
anyone out there know about capping off branch, i would appreciate a bit of info
In 50 odd years of plumbing, I have never seen a lead water main or branch main, these have all been cast iron, asbestos cement, PVC, or poly
Any half decent plumber should know how to wipe a stop end on a bit of lead pipe, whether the authorities will allow it or not is another matter

George, I would ask the water company what they want, for starters, (it gets them on your side) but if the meter is right on the boundary, I would assume that it would all be down to you to lay the new main, at the correct depth together with the approved double check valve, from your internal stop valve, to the meter, the only doubt I have is who would do the final connection to the meter, I would also run the new service in a continuous sleeve, this would stop any leaks, caused by the pipe moving over a sharp object in the ground

 

[georgeturner]

Thanks Plouasne and chrisd28 for your help in this.

The 32mm poly sounds a good idea - perhaps even the next size up - the blue pipe itself is peanuts in comparison to the cost of labour etc.

What I have heard is that if the meter is right on the boundary the plumber/builder can "duck under" to get to this... is this right? If this is the case do the water supplier need to be involved at all or is this obligatory for water safety issues?

The lead pipe goes straight from the new water meter (I think they connected a short length of blue plastic from the meter to the lead) direct to the house down a sideway (house is a semi).

Interesting thing has happened since I posted, I got a letter (this morning) to say the gas pipe in the road is to be upgraded soon to plastic. Regrettably my gas supply pipe was redone in plastic about 20 years back or they would have upgraded that too. I could have got them to do the water pipe at the same time!

Thanks again,
George

 

[BluePlumber]

If your only issue is with water pressure and or flow rates have you considered fitting a Water Accumulator?
Could be cheaper than digging and laying new pipes

 

[Plouasne]

Thanks Plouasne and chrisd28 for your help in this.

The 32mm poly sounds a good idea - perhaps even the next size up - the blue pipe itself is peanuts in comparison to the cost of labour etc.

What I have heard is that if the meter is right on the boundary the plumber/builder can "duck under" to get to this... is this right? If this is the case do the water supplier need to be involved at all or is this obligatory for water safety issues?

The lead pipe goes straight from the new water meter (I think they connected a short length of blue plastic from the meter to the lead) direct to the house down a sideway (house is a semi).

Interesting thing has happened since I posted, I got a letter (this morning) to say the gas pipe in the road is to be upgraded soon to plastic. Regrettably my gas supply pipe was redone in plastic about 20 years back or they would have upgraded that too. I could have got them to do the water pipe at the same time!

Thanks again,
George

George,

If you have to open up the public footway, get the water company in to do the final connection, this is to cover your back, they have public liability cover and have the legals on their side to fight a case if anybody got injured on the public high way caused by the excavation to replace the water main

I would doubt that you would have the cover for this and if you carried out the work and god forbid somebody did get hurt, they would take you to the cleaners twice over and then wring you out to dry

If your only issue is with water pressure and or flow rates have you considered fitting a Water Accumulator?
Could be cheaper than digging and laying new pipes

Look at the date of when the water main was laid, it will be as brittle as hell now, and in any case if the property was sold at a later date and the lead main was still in use this would go against the seller (hack the price down because the lead main would have to be replaced)

 

[justlead1]

Hi. It may well be an idea to contact the distribution team at the local water company. if the supply pipe is lead it is likely that the communication pipe is also lead. If this is the case the board may well change it and connect to your new supply pipe as part of the service. Good Luck

 

[georgeturner]

Thanks again - I note the point about liability - I'll get the water co involved to do the connection.

BluePlumber The water accumulator ? Sorry to sound thick but I've never heard of them - other houses here have megaflows but I was hoping to avoid them as they are expensive and take up space. Would a water accumulator be big and exepensive?

Rgds., George

 

[Plouasne]

George,

Its just another name for a pump pressure set, more trouble than they are worth if you ask me, the only time they are usefull is if there are no mains water where you are, link below

Cold Water Accumulator Improving Water Pressure

 

[georgeturner]

Thanks Plouasne !

On the face of it they sound absolutely ideal for my purposes. Also for the size I need they are an incredibly cheap solution.

I'm a bit concerned that you say "more trouble than they are worth" as there doesn't seems to be a lot to go wrong with them.

Have I understood this correctly: I assume these are just a water balloon style tank that fills with water from the mains (I imagine it has a non return valve?) and lets out more water at times of peak demand. Obviously it cannot increase the level on mains pressure as that would be creating energy from nowhere, but they can increase flow rate.

Thanks again,
George

 

[Plouasne]

George,

One of the problems with a water accumilator is that the bladder can split so it would have to be replaced, depending on what volume you get it could be 50 litres more water, before you fall back to what the mains will pass,

Another thing is the factory set pressure (though this can be changed) is 1.5 bar, if your water pressure is less than 1.5 bar it will not be any good to you unless you drop the pre-charge pressure

I would only use one if there was no mains water available and the water came from a well, or I was useing a rain water storage system for non-potable water, both in conjunction with an electric pump

If your lead water main was laid in 1902 its over a 100 years old and will be going cristiline (sp) and subject to fractures, if this happens any leakage of water after the meter is down to you

The choice is yours to make, but I would advise a new plastic water main, for the reasons I have stated in my other postings

 

[oldplumber]

call in a WIAPS aproved plumber who can complete and certify work for you without involving the water company and they can self certify their own work, but you have to notify the water company of your intention of laying a replacement main, many people dont bother!! Any reasonable water supply will only require you to lay a 25mm pipe for a decent supply and you just have to ensure a new stopcock is used as it enters you house as your original one is probably knackered. If you have any highways work involved, your plumber should have contacts with a ground work company who can get permits required for the work, without involving the water co who will probbably charge the earth to dig a small hole, you can always get them to quote if you dont believe me. to find an approved plumber look at the wiaps/wras website New Page 2

 

[georgeturner]

Thanks oldplumber for your help in this. I'll start getting quotes as soon as possible.

Rgds., George

 

[migoplumber]

agree with old plumber, dont make your life complicated installing another system you dont need.

 

[wiggy]

Hi, I also have upgraded recently i started by siting a new stop/drain valve under stairs (direct system) then piped in 22mm all through the house. I didnt install the (mdpe) i contacted the local authority and they advised me to use a company called (mole machine)
they also gave me a good price bout £300 to do the work which i thought was ok.
My pressure is great now good luck!!

 

[georgeturner]

Thanks wiggy for that - I think the mole boring for the new pipe would be great in my case as it would save getting up the concrete in the side passage.... but there is also a plastic gas pipe in that area so it could be tricky.

Cheers,
George

 

[indigo]

Thanks again - I note the point about liability - I'll get the water co involved to do the connection.

BluePlumber The water accumulator ? Sorry to sound thick but I've never heard of them - other houses here have megaflows but I was hoping to avoid them as they are expensive and take up space. Would a water accumulator be big and exepensive?

Rgds., George

An accumulator is very similar to an expansion vessel found on sealed heating systems only much bigger. Easy to fit, just requires a 22 feed from the mains with a check valve. only works with unvented cylinders etc or direct to cold water taps. Boosts flow only makes no difference to pressure.