Upstairs bathroom - WIP

[edwardk]

Thought I'd start a new thread for how to fit out my upstairs bathroom.

It's at studwork stage with most of the first fix pipework there (hot/cold sticking out of walls but no waste pipes yet).

I've started to add noggins for things like loos/basins/extractors etc and was wondering about basins in studwork walls.

I have a Roca Dama Senso Square basin :

It came with fixing bolts to screw through and hang the basin off.

I was about to add in some 2x4 noggins to hold this and then thought that maybe it wouldn't hold the basin?
I notice that there are basin frames - do people use these in studwork ?

I have some chunks of oak, would I be better off using this instead of softwood ?

Sorry - clueless again !

Here is the bathroom so far :

 

[Gray0689]

Sheet off the stud with 3/4 ply will hold everything there as I see you have whb and a tower rail on same wall
Then if you want mirror it's all secure

 

[edwardk]

Thanks - will get some 3/4" ply then.
Probably also add in noggins behind the basin as it seems very heavy.
Didn't buy the cabinet as will make one, so will add noggins for that behind the ply too and hope that the cabinet will go some way to supporting the basin too.

Already have noggins in for loo & in ceiling for extractor.

Got some quotes for boards to tile onto for floor (10mm) and for walls (12mm).
Marmox or Dukkaboard are sold by two shops locally - these any good ?

Will try and find other makes as have heard of Wedi but not the two above - same thing but different name ?

Althought it's not a wet room (shower will have tray and encolusre) the bathroom will get soaked so trying to waterproof it within reason.
Thanks
Ed

 

[PlumbBobBob]

what about hardi backer board i use it all the time and it is very good and comes in 6mm and 12mm

steve

 

[stevetheplumber]

if the basin is sitting on a cupboard it realy doesnt need a fixing as the wieght is taken by the cupboard just a bit of silicon to the tiles and where it sits
if its fully tiled onto cement based board you can just use rawlplugs to fix cupboard to wall same for mirrow

 

[edwardk]

OK ... a year on an still not much progress. Sea's getting cold so I need a bathroom now.


I've added noggins and ply behind the Marmox where the fittings will go for mirror and towel rail.
Got tails coming out of the board read to be tiled around.
Was waiting for the solar guy to finish (he has now...)so put up ceiling plasterboard.
Need to finish off walling with Marmox but haven't bought a shower yet so was a bit unsure of how to do this.

Question : at what point do you fit the shower tray ?
Do I fit it now. And then put Marmox down to the top edge of it.
Or do you fit the Marmox down to the floor - also then fit the floor Marmox. Finally add the tray on top of this ?

In the slight alcove I have a width of 1265mm stud to stud.
I was going to go and buy a large tray and then add to the stud until it fits snuggly (a tray 1200mm x 900mm).

This is a very rough sketch -

 

[WHPES]

If you're going to tile the shower, make sure you use Aquapanel or Hardi Backer board and NOT plasterboard!! Alternatively use Multipanel or Mermaid board instead of tiles - this can stick straight onto the wall or even to the timberwork.

 

[Gray0689]

Where are your waste pipes
Why is your bath tap pipes 15mm
Fit boards then shower try I'd use a classi seal round shower tray

 

[edwardk]

Yes - waste pipes ... need to work that out but thought I'd do that once I have bought a bath and tray.

Bath is 15mm ... Is that wrong? It's 22mm all the way through until the last metre or so. I think that I changed down to 15mm just to run it under the floor.

Have more Marmox to fit on the walls but haven't bought the shower taps yet so think I can't board that until I know where to put noggins for the shower column and for the tap support.

 

[edwardk]

Cool - found a vid on the classi seal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rJvoyF02YQ
Got it - so Marmox board on wall and floor - then classi seal on tray - push tray against wall - tile down over classi seal - leave a 3mm? gap and seal with silicone to finish off.

Had a look at shower types - seem to be the ones with the clip on side panels and the solid ones.
Which are better?

I'm unclear how to join the shower to the waste pipe if it's under the tray and you have a solid tray (ie no side panels). Is it a case of bringing the waste pipe out of the floor, through the marmox floor board and then lowering the tray over this vertical pipe and joining the trap to it?

Will have a look on youtube... thanks for any help - I realise these are simple questions but I am a novice
Ed

 

[edwardk]

Shower trays - seem to be a range of materials - acrylic / steel / china ... was looking at the acrylic ones - any good or to be avoided ? Went to one place at lunchtime here and they had 'stone resin' ones which they say flex less - any truth in this ?

Baths - was looking at either a Roca Senso or a Roca Vythos (both double ended 1700 x 800). Was planning on either coming away from the wall by 150mm and then mounting the taps on the horizontal build-out next the bath or I though about making a vertical wall section up from that to the start of the sloping ceiling and mounting the taps out from the wall. If I do the later then I could build shelves either side of this column.
Maybe the Roca Loft-T taps...or Loft Elite ones.

Shower - been looking at a stack of shapes and sizes. Spoke to the guys who sold me the heatstor and they said I had up to 36 litres / minute so could chuck on pretty much any shower.
The ones I like are exposed - thermostatic - with a fixed head (not too big) and a side hand shower.

Mirror - think big is good so have gone for Roca - Stratum mirror with light - 1100 x 600

Had enough of looking at all the brochures and nothing in stock locally (island) so have just gone for stuff from the Roca catalogue. Can get a good deal from local merchant I hope as I order alot of other stuff through them.

Any advice?
Like the Roca Moai-T but hoping to find a cheaper one that looks like that style.

 

[edwardk]

Been looking at shower trays....
I'm not sure if I HAVE to drop down under the floor with the waste?
I've got quite a few pipes and joist around and have worked out that I need a 1200 x 900 with the waste outlet in the middle of the short side (ie 450mm in from the edge).
I don't think the other waste outlets will fit if I have to go down into the floor.
Is the alternative to raise the shower plinth, run the waste above the floor, running it along a wall and then outside?
I have a loo on that wall too and the waste will run above the floor then out. Can I run the shower waste under the loo waste ?

I guess the alternative is to shop around more for a shower tray 1200 x 900 with the waste where I want it...
Thanks
Ed

 

[stevetheplumber]

if theres a way out through the joists for the waste you can get the shower flat to floor run waste and fit bottom half of trap to exact position of waste hole lower tray on to foor and screw top half of trap into it using the washer and silicone or plumbers mate
best if the floor is plyed first in the section under the tray which allows a trap in front to align the waste id aslo run water down tray to check for leaks prior to plying the rest of the floor

 

[edwardk]

Thanks Steve - stopped off at local plumbing place to see if I could find a tray that fits.
Need waste in a specific place between pipes and joists but couldn't find a tray to fit (ordering will take couple of weeks).

Guess I will have to buy the 1200 x 900 tray they have in stock then raise it up with studwork maybe 150mm.
The trap would then be above the floor and I think I can take the waste out sideways and along a wall - might hae to cut a section of floor out depending on the fall - then out the wall and to the stack.

Will make a sketch tomorrow to try and explain- then you can say where I'm going wrong ! Good learning curve !

What is the correct fall for a shower waste ?

The traps seem to be 90mm ones - what is the correct size waste pipe to get ?

Many thanks - Ed

 

[PlumbBobBob]

usually shower wastes are minimum of 40mm sometimes 50mm depending on length of run. it would be better if you can get a shower tray that can be raised on the correct legs for it rather then building out of stud work.

 

[bob the plumber]

what about hardi backer board i use it all the time and it is very good and comes in 6mm and 12mm

steve

do you not find that hardi backer board is an absolute nightmare to fix back onto a stud? and can you get a decent fixing on it without having to put noggins in the stud?

 

[cr0ft]

Personally I use moisture resistant plasterboard in shower areas and tank the whole lot with BAL WP1 rubber tanking compound. When that's done with no water is getting near the plasterboard. This is a LOT cheaper than using expensive aqua boards or other waterproof boards in my opinion and it does the same job.

 

[edwardk]

Thanks - I've been using Marmox for the walls and intend to use a thinner Marmox for the floor with maybe some ditramat I have left over.
Used MR plasterboard for the ceilings.

OK - so have been thinking about the shower.
Do people aim to have a low profile shower tray with the waste running between joists in the floor for any other reason other than aesthetics?
I'm thinking that running the waste pipe around a wall and boxing it in (along with shower on plinth/feet) will be better for my situation but don't fully understand the options available.

Got a brochure for the Corum shower trays - these any good ?
Liked that they had 3 upstands for building into the wall and the feet look good.
The riser ones sit 185mm up which I think is ok ?

Any advice?
Thanks
Ed

 

[Gray0689]

Hi edd roca is a decent make should be ok there
Stone resin trays are best IMHO as Steve said 40mm waste pipe yes it's better to have on floor not raised but only for looks it can be raised I don't like the legs on shower trays rather get a plinth made stronger IMHO
Not heard of them makes we use classic marble shower trays
You will only have the flow rate they say if your mains is carrying that volume of water to your house (do you think your incoming mains is good)
You really should of had your wastes sorted by now running wastes round Walls in a new build is not good IMHO

 

[WHPES]

Agree. Timberwork well done is far more sturdy than legs. Make sure its firm and well stuck down. Squeeze plenty of silicone between the tray and the wall before you push it back so that it squeezes out and leaves no gaps.

Dont cut corners -use the proper aquapanel / hardibacker board. You don't need to go right to the top as its only the bottom 1.5m from the tray which will ever get wet - plasterbaord is fine above that.

 

[cr0ft]

IMO moisture resistant board plus tanking on top isn't cutting corners. I think it's a cheaper way to achieve a good job for customers to be honest. Never been called back to fix a damaged shower yet! Appreciate the aquapanel is a better product compared to bare plasterboards (of course) but it isn't good value (imo) compared to the alternative I've suggested.

 

[edwardk]

As I'm doing the work myself I can justify a higher material cost as labour is, well... just me when I can. As mentioned before I've gone for Marmox board throughout.

Anyway - been getting quotes for bathroom stuff (shower trays / bath / taps etc)

Will have to go for raised shower plinth.

Started reading about waste etc last night but busy day so fell asleep in the book... will have another go tonight.

 

[edwardk]

For shower trays are Merlyte ones ok ?
I got a quote for one but I think it is 're-inforced acrylic' rather than stone resin.

Got a similar quote for a stone resin one locally - might be a 'Mere - Alba' tray.

Both are 1200 x 900.

 

[edwardk]

Shower trays - can get a 1200 x 900 one of these Merlyte ones : Merlyn Bathrooms :: Merlyn Merlyte Traysor
an MX Group one (might be this exact model as the bloke in the shop said it was 'stone resin' but no model number on it )
MX Group -The Leading Manufacturer of Showers, Shower Trays and Shower Accessories'm leaning towards the Merlyte tray as the price is cheaper for me (I buy alot from the shop who would sell this to me) - also it has a better chance of fitting this door:

Merlyn Series 6 recess sliding door- Merlyn Bathrooms :: Products :: Enclosures :: Merlyn :: 8 Series
or
Merlyn Series 8 recess sliding door - Merlyn Bathrooms :: Products :: Enclosures :: Merlyn :: 8 Series

Not sure what the difference is between the series 6 and the 8 apart from glass thickness and a better coating on the series 8. Is it worth it ?

Any issues with sliding doors ?
I wanted a sliding door as I think a hinged one will be too big in a small bathroom.

 

[edwardk]

I was planning on building out a studwork wall so that the shower tray would be in a recess and I'd just need a glass shower door to fit the 1200mm long side.

I'm mostly worried about the waste pipes now.

I've placed the stack boss/join roughly where it will be (but will be a metre lower obviously).

I thought I can run the loo waste from the loo out and then make a right angle into this boss.
I was thinking that I can run the shower waste alongside (or maybe under) the loo waste and then box it in.
The space between the loo and the studwall on one side and the bath on the other side is not very big so I think boxing the shower and loo waste makes sense ?
The shower waste then goes through the wall and makes a right angle into the stack.

# Can I run the shower waste direct into the stack just below the loo waste ? (ie fit a small collar below the boss/join pipe that I'm showing balancing on the bath)

The bath waste is to the right of the stack vertical line so I was thinking of taking it straight out through the wall and then making a right angle to the left and into the stack.

# Can I run the bath direct into the stack opposite the loo waste or will I get cross flow ?

The basin is on the right of the picture, I was planning on running the waste round the room and into the bath waste before going outside.

# Can I run the basin waste into the bath waste before exiting the building ?

Thanks,
Ed