Using a full-bore lever valve as a stopcock.

[cr0ft]

Hi all. I did my unvented course today and asked the question about using a full-bore lever valve as a stopcock. The guy who owns the training centre was teaching us and he said that it's not illegal to fit full-bore lever valves in place of stopcocks now. The water in the riser main is classed as fluid category 1 so there is no risk from back-flow. Risk is prevented by appropriate check valves at relevant outlets. This is good news as stopcocks restrict flow loads. If flow rate is borderline for an un-vented cylinder installation then they help quite a lot.

 

[tamz]

Up here most WA's insist on a dc valve fitted just after the stopcock so whether you have a lever ballvalve or stopcock there will still be a restriction.

 

[unguided1]

Hi all. I did my unvented course today and asked the question about using a full-bore lever valve as a stopcock. The guy who owns the training centre was teaching us and he said that it's not illegal to fit full-bore lever valves in place of stopcocks now. The water in the riser main is classed as fluid category 1 so there is no risk from back-flow. Risk is prevented by appropriate check valves at relevant outlets. This is good news as stopcocks restrict flow loads. If flow rate is borderline for an un-vented cylinder installation then they help quite a lot.

Stuff the question you asked, more importantly did yer pass yer unvented???

 

[cr0ft]

Yup! The whole thing was typical of what I've encountered so far. If you fail the exam (I didn't) the invigilator just talks you to the answers. Sort of made me wonder what the point was in the whole thing tbh!

 

[Gray0689]

Stuff the question you asked, more importantly did yer pass yer unvented???

Nobody has ever failed this lol

 

[Dannypipe]

Nobody has ever failed this lol

True. But there are many qualified guys who should have failed it.

 

[Gray0689]

True. But there are many qualified guys who should have failed it.

I totaly agree danny there is loads that should fail but don't it's a joke

 

[cr0ft]

It's the whole reason why people want experience. If the qualifications weren't such that anyone can pass them (no offence intended to anyone here but you know what I mean) then people would have more confidence in the trade. Also, they're not policed by building control. Bearing in mind I'm installing my first one of these on Monday, I phoned Building Control and they are happy just for me to send them a cheque for £80 and they will send me the certificate. No inspection at all..

 

[kirkgas]

Yup! The whole thing was typical of what I've encountered so far. If you fail the exam (I didn't) the invigilator just talks you to the answers. Sort of made me wonder what the point was in the whole thing tbh!

the point is it is an appreciation and understanding of the principles and requirements to do the job safely, the fact that the exam is fairly straightforward is neither here nor there, if the candidate knows a lot of the stuff by referencing the material available then they will do the job properly, the exam proves they can reference, although when asked a particular question some candidates cant find the answer and get frustrated, but when on a job and needing to find a specific answer to their own question they will work through the notes and MI to find what to do, a lot of people say unvented and energy efficiency are not worth the money and only do it cause they have to, which is fair enough but after the course they all say they have picked up something, but it isnt worht the £100, thats their opinion but £100 isnt too bad for 1-1.5 days, when measured against what they charge

 

[kirkgas]

It's the whole reason why people want experience. If the qualifications weren't such that anyone can pass them (no offence intended to anyone here but you know what I mean) then people would have more confidence in the trade. Also, they're not policed by building control. Bearing in mind I'm installing my first one of these on Monday, I phoned Building Control and they are happy just for me to send them a cheque for £80 and they will send me the certificate. No inspection at all..

have you looked at the costs of notifying via GSR or one of the others to see what the cost is via them, and did you remember to add the notification time and cost to the price (i would add £100 to cover time to notify as well)

 

[kirkgas]

True. But there are many qualified guys who should have failed it.

a lot of guys do unvented course who have done installs or maintenance and comment on the poor standard they see out on the job now that they know how it should be fitted, but that is the problem we face in the trade, too many people think they can do the job as we make it look easy, the amount of plumbers who do unvented course who are shocked that there is a strict critera for the D2 size and design always amaze me, they must be opening the box and fitting the thing as they are plumbers and its only a tank

 

[cr0ft]

Hi Kirk. I subcontract out all of our gas work to another guy on this forum who works locally. I looked into registering just for unvented (the only thing that requires self-certification just now) and the cheapest place I could find was £300 including VAT a year. I don't think it's worth registering to a scheme for now. It's not that bad to notify building control, its just a short form and a cheque in the post to be honest. Then I just call them when it's completed and they will sort out the rest. Or so they said

 

[kirkgas]

Hi Kirk. I subcontract out all of our gas work to another guy on this forum who works locally. I looked into registering just for unvented (the only thing that requires self-certification just now) and the cheapest place I could find was £300 including VAT a year. I don't think it's worth registering to a scheme for now. It's not that bad to notify building control, its just a short form and a cheque in the post to be honest. Then I just call them when it's completed and they will sort out the rest. Or so they said

i thought the issue with going via building control was that you had to apply for permission before you fitted and they had 28 days to refuse, so in effect if you didnt hear from them in 28 days you went ahead and fitted

 

[cr0ft]

All I had to do was call them up and one of them told me to complete a 1 page building notice form and send a cheque for £80 including VAT. As I'm VAT registering shortly I can install 5 of these each year before I'm better off being with a competent person scheme. My situation is maybe a bit unique though as I'm not a gas fitter, I only do plumbing and wiring for the systems.