vaillant ecotec plus 824

[REDSAW]

hi peeps,
just been to mothers to drop rad in hallway for decorating, infact took of wall instead as it fouled the doorway (dirty rad).
anyways, poped it back on the other day and toped up the pressure to 1bar only it poped a leak in somewhere in the unit before it reached pressure, well before. tought it was the norm = filler loop but wasn't.
water running from no defined position under cabinet around 1 & 1/2 litres in all, so it was of with the cover.
after a look around it appeared that it was comming from the pump.
at the back of the pump there is a air release or bleader nipple (like a tire valve cap) and was comming from there. i then screwed it down as it was very loose and it stoped leaking. i then told mother to call the installers because it had been done under warmfront deal and was guarenteed untill next jan.
a service engineer came around and told her he had changed 2 flexible pipes that took 2 hours?.
mother then said an inspector came 3 hours later and took another 1hour?.
so i decided to take a look,
no sign of any new pipes, although there all new anyway and the cap of the pump bleed has been took of and not replaced/missing.

question is

what do you think the problem was,
what is the valve on pump for, assume air bleed,
and do you think this guy is new/being inspected by gas-safe?.
do you, as i do, think the problem will occur again when pressure is lost,
is it worth dropping to test so it can be rectified before warrentee runs out.

lots of wandereing but thanks.

 

[Puddle]

There is an auto air vent on the pump; this would probably have been the leaking item

This gets rid of any air in the pump when you refill the boiler and should be closed afterwards

What happened is when you refilled boiler the auto air vent could not close correctly probably due to a bit of rubbish in it therefore water leaks out, by closing cap you seal top of valve

Presume engineer removed and replaced or cleaned out, the cap should be on auto air vent, closed, so if missing, they should be called back to replace

maybe inspector just checking works done, or maybe not an inspector but as so often happens the first block could not fix it, as not what they call simple fault, so a more experienced engineer comes, sounds a bit like that if first engineer said he had replaced some pipes, probably just said that to get out house with people thinking works done

Or we could get rely sinister and maybe first bloke claiming to replace parts on boiler that he is not and selling on e bay and inspector is checking out if the parts he said were Infact replaced

Maybe you could do an e bay search for two flexible tubes for a vaillent eco tec plus 824 and see if you recognize yours

 

[bobpape]

Regarding the missing cap..If it is the same size as a car wheel Shrader valve then surely that is what it is.. is it possible you are looking at the air valve on the expansion vessel.
If that is in fact the case then water comming out of it would indicate air bladder failure.

 

[stevetheplumber]

There is an auto air vent on the pump; this would probably have been the leaking item

This gets rid of any air in the pump when you refill the boiler and should be closed afterwards

What happened is when you refilled boiler the auto air vent could not close correctly probably due to a bit of rubbish in it therefore water leaks out, by closing cap you seal top of valve

Presume engineer removed and replaced or cleaned out, the cap should be on auto air vent, closed, so if missing, they should be called back to replace

maybe inspector just checking works done, or maybe not an inspector but as so often happens the first block could not fix it, as not what they call simple fault, so a more experienced engineer comes, sounds a bit like that if first engineer said he had replaced some pipes, probably just said that to get out house with people thinking works done

Or we could get rely sinister and maybe first bloke claiming to replace parts on boiler that he is not and selling on e bay and inspector is checking out if the parts he said were Infact replaced

Maybe you could do an e bay search for two flexible tubes for a vaillent eco tec plus 824 and see if you recognize yours

the cap on the auto air vent should be left open as its there to remove any air from the pump usually just a quarter turn

 

[Puddle]

the cap on the auto air vent should be left open as its there to remove any air from the pump usually just a quarter turn

That used to be the case and still is for some auto air vents on any open vented systems
but on sealed systems the cap should be closed in normal operating conditions

 

[stevetheplumber]

That used to be the case and still is for some auto air vents on any open vented systems
but on sealed systems the cap should be closed in normal operating conditions

just checked my vaillant instalation instructions and nowhere does it say to close the aav after filling
if you close it it then becomes a manual air vent in the cut throat world of combi pricing if a manual valve was sufficent they would not fit an aav
cut from vailant ecotec instructions

"Loosen the cap of the pump A.A.V. (automatic air
vent) (the appliance is ventilated independently by the
pump A.A.V. during continuous operation)."

since this obviously means every vailant anyone here has fitted without leaving the cap loose is not fitted to manufacturers insrtuctions i feel you should all notify gas safe imediatly or the boiler will probably go into melt down flood 3 infant schools and result in a quadzillion pound law suit

 

[newbie1]

done a few 824s recently and havnt touched anything internally during installation surely the vent is set in production

 

[stevetheplumber]

done a few 824s recently and havnt touched anything internally during installation surely the vent is set in production

tut tut newbie not reading the instructions see above

 

[newbie1]

well i am no expert but the engineer i have been working with def hasnt touched the pump during fill up or at any time but i will certainly mention it
surely any air will be bled out during fill up and thru rads and the vent on the pump used if you have some troubelsome air(havnt had any yet)and wont the prv will kick in should anything major go amiss

 

[stevetheplumber]

well i am no expert but the engineer i have been working with def hasnt touched the pump during fill up or at any time but i will certainly mention it
surely any air will be bled out during fill up and thru rads and the vent on the pump used if you have some troubelsome air(havnt had any yet)and wont the prv will kick in should anything major go amiss

trapped air can collect after system is running a while also any mix of liquid and metal will produce some electrolitic action which will produce gas although with sealed system and every boiler having inhibitor in this should be minimal
air in heating systems is generally a thing of the past now everything is mains filled and sealed

 

[newbie1]

just looked and it does say to loosen the cap will ring vaillant tomorrow as doing another one at weekend..am i right in saying though the prv will kick in if the air got to a silly stage..have to say it allways good to get a bit of positive info in a back and forth conversation..def will mention to the engineer who has been teaching me

do you just slacken the cap slightly??

 

[stevetheplumber]

yes just slaken slightly if you do it after the preasures up youl hear it release air .Your fitter should also vent pump from screw in center to ensure water is on all bearing suraces inside the pump

 

[radswilldo]

I fit vaillants, a.a.v must be in the open position, same is true for all boilers unless otherwise stated. Pumps should also be vented and bled when filling. Newbie does your boss/workmate use vaillant test programs, p0, p5,p6, p5 must be done, its the high limit stat test.

 

[newbie1]

is it just the cap you slacken or the actual valve??will have to pass on this to guy been teaching me

called vaillant and yes you are supposed to loosen the cap and leave it loosened

 

[REDSAW]

i am going to take a picky of it later in the week when i go to me mams,
i am sure most will already know what it looks like,, but anyway...
i still think the cap should be replaced also, and i may even re-presurise it to see if it leaks again rather than my mum getting stressed 'if thee blows captn'.

 

[REDSAW]

here is the picture of the pump a.v. you can just see the top black spout where the cap has been taken of by the service guy, or forgot to replace.
as you can just make-out there is a slot in the thread which corresponds to a little cut in the cap body to bypass air.
sorry about quality of pic, but it was a bit dark and cramped in there and this is the best i could get.

so, does any one agree that the cap should be replaced or not?.

by the way, i went up there today and noticed the pressure was only about 1/4 bar and the engineer should have topped it to 1-1 1/2bar as i think it is rated for. i have topped it to 1-1/2bar myself so we shall see if there is a loss of pressure next week.

 

[newbie1]

should realy be replaced to stop ingress of dust/dirt if loosened then air can escape if off as air escape crap could enter(theoretically)

 

[REDSAW]

whats your opinions then as its still on guarentee?.
call them and tell them do the job properly,

or leave till end of gntee and do it / check myself?.