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ProffesorPlumb
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Discuss VIY Plumbing Training in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at Plumbers Forums
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bishbosh77
Hi
I have just finished the VIY course at the old price.... First five weeks in classroom with a guy who was a gas fitter/trainer who is realy up himself and all the info he tells you is as it should be but he has no real world experiance as a plumber just a gas fitter. The next five weeks in workshop are verygood and hard work (you for some reason get clowns on the course who don't want to learn) and all the tutors in workshops are top class and will teach everybody who wants to learn.As advice goes buy your own tools after course has finished so you know what is needed, ask loads of questions as the time soon goes and the main thing DO NOT EXPECT WORK WHEN YOU FINISH, its tough out there.
If i could have sugested one thing to make the course better it would be to get thw owner George to teach the first five weeks of the course as he was a real world plumber with loads of realy useful info that would work in the class room and be transfered to the real world, as george is a no B*****t kind of guy and tells it like it is (old school).
The only thing what ever course you do untill you have done it you don't realise how much more there is to learn.
I hope this helps all the budding toilet jockeys out there...
I have just finished the VIY course at the old price.... First five weeks in classroom with a guy who was a gas fitter/trainer who is realy up himself and all the info he tells you is as it should be but he has no real world experiance as a plumber just a gas fitter. The next five weeks in workshop are verygood and hard work (you for some reason get clowns on the course who don't want to learn) and all the tutors in workshops are top class and will teach everybody who wants to learn.As advice goes buy your own tools after course has finished so you know what is needed, ask loads of questions as the time soon goes and the main thing DO NOT EXPECT WORK WHEN YOU FINISH, its tough out there.
If i could have sugested one thing to make the course better it would be to get thw owner George to teach the first five weeks of the course as he was a real world plumber with loads of realy useful info that would work in the class room and be transfered to the real world, as george is a no B*****t kind of guy and tells it like it is (old school).
The only thing what ever course you do untill you have done it you don't realise how much more there is to learn.
I hope this helps all the budding toilet jockeys out there...
J
joebaxi
i,m currently halfway through this courseand have just completed my first week in workshops after the five week classroom stuff.I must admit its nowt like i was expecting it to be.All the rules and regs you have to learn for the qualifications are a little tiresome and i reckon you could probably go up to a plumber who qualified 30 years ago and he probably wouldnt have a clue what you were on about,but i want the qualification so needs must.I think Joe the classroom tutor has his hands tied as far as what he can teach you,his job is to get you through the exams so teaching tricks of the trade or shortcuts are out of the window.The workshops however are a different matter and much more laid back.The assessors are brilliant and only too willing to help....secretly though i think they like making you look an idiot when you call them over to a problem you.re having and they put it right in 2 seconds before walking off looking smug....but thats just my opinion
.The way the workshops are laid out are as as real as i suppose they could make them,ie floorboards and joists in the bathroom bays etc.Most of the guys on my course are planning to go self employed which i suppose is the way to go to get on in this trade.Most employers wont want the hassle of taking on trainees,especially the more mature ones as there will be pay issues.I myself plan to concentrate in one area ie bathroom fitting however i will advertise myself as a domestic plumber and take on the little jobs nobody wants.I think anyone going on these courses and expecting to make serious money straight away are slightly deluded,all that will come with experience and hard work.
.The way the workshops are laid out are as as real as i suppose they could make them,ie floorboards and joists in the bathroom bays etc.Most of the guys on my course are planning to go self employed which i suppose is the way to go to get on in this trade.Most employers wont want the hassle of taking on trainees,especially the more mature ones as there will be pay issues.I myself plan to concentrate in one area ie bathroom fitting however i will advertise myself as a domestic plumber and take on the little jobs nobody wants.I think anyone going on these courses and expecting to make serious money straight away are slightly deluded,all that will come with experience and hard work.
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ProffesorPlumb
Excellent post there joe, and a good outlook to getting started
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taurus77
I was considering training with VIY this coming summer (2008) but am seriously re-considering after reading bishbosh77 and joebaxi's posts that the first 5-weeks of the 10-week course are classroom based. I was dubious before about being able to pick up plumbing skills in just 10-weeks, and now that I know that it is actually just 5-weeks I am left wondering if somebody could actually pick up competent plumbing skills in such a short space of time?
Its all vey well leaving the centre at the end of 10-weeks qualified, but the qualification is useless on its own unless it is re-enforced with good quality training (and impartial too - if I've done a bad job i want to be told that). Is anybody able to verify the quality of VIY's 5-week training? Afterall, I wouldn't want to spend best part of £7000 to find that at the end of the course I could give a lecture of Water Regulations but not be able to plumb a bathroom and such like.
after reading bishbosh77 and joebaxi's posts that the first 5-weeks of the 10-week course are classroom based. I was dubious before about being able to pick up plumbing skills in just 10-weeks, and now that I know that it is actually just 5-weeks I am left wondering if somebody could actually pick up competent plumbing skills in such a short space of time? Its all vey well leaving the centre at the end of 10-weeks qualified, but the qualification is useless on its own unless it is re-enforced with good quality training (and impartial too - if I've done a bad job i want to be told that). Is anybody able to verify the quality of VIY's 5-week training? Afterall, I wouldn't want to spend best part of £7000 to find that at the end of the course I could give a lecture of Water Regulations but not be able to plumb a bathroom and such like.
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oldplumbers
Hi Taurus77,I was thinking of doing a course myself but have backed off due too housing market and feedback on various forums.I have spoken to a guy at Chaseplumbing.co.uk who says that to do domestic plumbing you only need a two week course,get an NOCN certificate for it and do a 1 day course for your WRAS ticket and away you go-all for about a grand!!!!
Now not might be a good time to start a trades course as various comments suggest that with a sudden slump in the housing market a lot of trades people are now having to do domestic work inorder to make ends meet.
oldplumbers.
Now not might be a good time to start a trades course as various comments suggest that with a sudden slump in the housing market a lot of trades people are now having to do domestic work inorder to make ends meet.
oldplumbers.
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taurus77
Hi oldplumbers. Thanks for the feedback.
Is there ever a right time to learn a new trade?
I have never believed the hype about the shortgage of plumbers in the UK and having reasearched my potential new career I do believe those people like me coming into the industry have left it a little too late (by about 5 years I reckon). So why am I bothering you ask? Well, I long for warmer climates and believe getting a trade such as plumbing will allow me to emigrate to such countries such as Australia or New Zealand where, I could probably (or rather hopefully) prosper better than I would in the UK. However, I would need more than just the NOCN certificate to be able to realise this ambition.
I hear that such courses as the NOCN certificate and the fast-track qualifications are to blame for Soding off time-served plumbers and as such are frowned upon.
Is there ever a right time to learn a new trade?
I have never believed the hype about the shortgage of plumbers in the UK and having reasearched my potential new career I do believe those people like me coming into the industry have left it a little too late (by about 5 years I reckon). So why am I bothering you ask? Well, I long for warmer climates and believe getting a trade such as plumbing will allow me to emigrate to such countries such as Australia or New Zealand where, I could probably (or rather hopefully) prosper better than I would in the UK. However, I would need more than just the NOCN certificate to be able to realise this ambition.
I hear that such courses as the NOCN certificate and the fast-track qualifications are to blame for Soding off time-served plumbers and as such are frowned upon.
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ProffesorPlumb
Hi guys - interesting feedback there about training.
It doesn't matter where you do your training, as long as its accredited and your getting value for money.
The NOCN certificate cross matches to the NVQ criteria. It just doesn't say City & Guilds
As long as you get the right training, covering all the necessary theory and practical, with an ACCREDITED training certificate, it doesn't matter what awarding body you go for.
It's experience that makes you quicker and more confident after your training. It's the same for any kind of training you do, in any occupation.
It's like the old driving test story. Everybody is a nervous driver after passing their test. They get better over time
So I suppose it all boils down to what you want to spend?
Somebody from another thread made an interesting comment about 'old plumbers' not taking on apprentices. If 'new recruits' didn't take the bull by the horns and go for it themselves, who is going to replace the 'old school' plumbers that get Soded off so easily?
There is nothing wrong with ambition, combined with the desire to succeed and motivation
It doesn't matter where you do your training, as long as its accredited and your getting value for money.
The NOCN certificate cross matches to the NVQ criteria. It just doesn't say City & Guilds
As long as you get the right training, covering all the necessary theory and practical, with an ACCREDITED training certificate, it doesn't matter what awarding body you go for.
It's experience that makes you quicker and more confident after your training. It's the same for any kind of training you do, in any occupation.
It's like the old driving test story. Everybody is a nervous driver after passing their test. They get better over time
So I suppose it all boils down to what you want to spend?
Somebody from another thread made an interesting comment about 'old plumbers' not taking on apprentices. If 'new recruits' didn't take the bull by the horns and go for it themselves, who is going to replace the 'old school' plumbers that get Soded off so easily?
There is nothing wrong with ambition, combined with the desire to succeed and motivation
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oldplumbers
Hi Professor plumb,
Don't get me wrong,I'm not knocking the guy for his ambition etc,its just that he could spend a lot of money and get very little in return!
With regards to OZ/N.Z-I think taurus 77 would need 4/5 years experience after qualifying in order to apply for a trade position down-under.I suggest he checks a couple of immagration site for additional info,.
Regards,
oldplumbers.
Don't get me wrong,I'm not knocking the guy for his ambition etc,its just that he could spend a lot of money and get very little in return!
With regards to OZ/N.Z-I think taurus 77 would need 4/5 years experience after qualifying in order to apply for a trade position down-under.I suggest he checks a couple of immagration site for additional info,.
Regards,
oldplumbers.
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joebaxi
hi tauruss77....regarding your post that you were thinking of going with viy training but do not think 10 weeks was sufficient time especially as only 5 weeks of this is workshop based.i feel it is my duty to big up viy as i,m currently still doing this course and am enjoying it immensely with a great bunch of blokes,assessors and students alike.it,s something i,ve been pawing over for a few years now and whilst researching all the different courses viy was always up at the top of my list.it is i agree a lot of money to spend and a big risk to take especialy at my age nearly 40 but after 20 years in a factory and a handful of other jobs i didnt care for i thought what the heck so took the plunge.the course is everything they tell you it is on their web pages.if you go on their tour on a thursday george the owner explains everything the course offers and sugar coats nothing.one course i nearly went on a few months back was a grand cheaper than viy but i smelled a huge rat when some spiv in suit came to my house and proceeded to act like my best mate and was telling me i was the sort of person they wanted on their course then made a big deal of phoning his boss and begging him to try and squeeze me in on the next corse.it turned out the certificates they were offering werent worth the paper they were written on and the practical experience they offered amounted to summat like 5 days workshop and 6 months home learning.dont get me wrong i,m under no illusion that you can learn plumbing in ten weeks and was also a little surprised that it was a straight 5 weeks classroom then 5 weeks workshop.the classroom bit is to get you through the 12 exams you need to pass for the 6129 certificate and you could be forgiven for thinking that you are being thrown a lot of information you dont need to know as regards plumbing and the time could be better spent doing hands on work but the teaching is first class and joe the tutor is only too happy to repeat anything you dont understand over and over again until it finally sinks into your old and dicrepit brain.things like health and safety and working relationships are a bit of a chore but city and guilds demand that you must learn these things to gain the qualifications.the exams are multiple choice and require 80% to pass but 75% gives yolu a chance to immediately have another crack at the questions you got wrong.less than 75% means you must resit the exam further on in the course.as regards the workshops there is really only so much they can show you.the first half day there we were given a blow torch,as much copper pipe as we wanted and an endless supply of elbows and tees and after a quick demo told to practice soldering joints...its as simple as that.2 hours of practice and so far after 3 weeks of different projects nobody to my knowledge has had a leaky soldered joint.then after a quick demo on spring bending and machine bending you,re thrown straight into plumbing in a full bathroom suite.sounds a bit daunting but the assessors run round like blue assed flies helping you out but to be honest the knowledge is already there from the classroom work it,s just a case of getting your hands to do what you,re brain is telling them to.the bathroom takes about 2 days but if they asked me to do it again tomorrow i,d have it done by dinner time.you,re confidence grows and you find yourself chomping at the bit to get vstarting on the next project and learn something different.theres a couple of days precise copper work where bends have to be accurate to correct angles and length but thats just to please city and guilds and its just basic maths and learning the bending machines capabilities.out in the real world the bending machine will probably never leave the van.i have 2 weeks to go on mny practical and i can honestly say i know a million times more about plumbing now than i ever did and would be confident in taking on any job i,ve learnt so far.ok i,m gonna take twice as long and will probably refer back to my books now and again for the next 6 months or so and i,l probably turn down a few major jobs till i have enough experience but like my old dad used to say "if you dont make the odd f*** up,you never learn".yeah go for viy mate if you decide to do plumbing,there,s no bull and they do exactly what it says on the tin
.you,re confidence grows and you find yourself chomping at the bit to get vstarting on the next project and learn something different.theres a couple of days precise copper work where bends have to be accurate to correct angles and length but thats just to please city and guilds and its just basic maths and learning the bending machines capabilities.out in the real world the bending machine will probably never leave the van.i have 2 weeks to go on mny practical and i can honestly say i know a million times more about plumbing now than i ever did and would be confident in taking on any job i,ve learnt so far.ok i,m gonna take twice as long and will probably refer back to my books now and again for the next 6 months or so and i,l probably turn down a few major jobs till i have enough experience but like my old dad used to say "if you dont make the odd f*** up,you never learn".yeah go for viy mate if you decide to do plumbing,there,s no bull and they do exactly what it says on the tin
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taurus77
Wow joebaxi, what an amazing and most importantly reassuring review of VIY . By nature, I am a very cautious person so thinking about parting with the best part of £7000 has had me in a frenzy ! Your response has certainly put my faith in fast track training centres such as VIY. With this in mind, I will now start to make positive steps enrolling on the next available course with VIY (sorry to disappoint you 'oldplumbers'). Will keep you all posted on my progress .
A word of caution though everyone...I am reliably informed that the City & Guilds 6089 (NVQ 2) through VIY comes at an extra cost i.e. the visiting costs of the assessor. This will be around £150 a visit (more if they have to stay overnight), with around 3 visits to be able to gain the C&G (NVQ 2) 6089.
. By nature, I am a very cautious person so thinking about parting with the best part of £7000 has had me in a frenzy ! Your response has certainly put my faith in fast track training centres such as VIY. With this in mind, I will now start to make positive steps enrolling on the next available course with VIY (sorry to disappoint you 'oldplumbers'). Will keep you all posted on my progress .A word of caution though everyone...I am reliably informed that the City & Guilds 6089 (NVQ 2) through VIY comes at an extra cost i.e. the visiting costs of the assessor. This will be around £150 a visit (more if they have to stay overnight)
, with around 3 visits to be able to gain the C&G (NVQ 2) 6089.
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joebaxi
hi tauruss77,yes you are right about the extra cost for the assessors to visit onsight for the 6089.From what i can gather it would be difficult to include this in the price of the course because it wouldn,t be the same for everyone and also because not everyone may choose to go on to gain their 6089 so you,d be paying for something you,re not gonna use.Also it may be possible to gain more than 1 assessment in 1 visit depending on the size of job you are doing thus maybe saving money but don't quote me on that.You are however registered for the 6089 through viy which is included in the course fee and you have 2 years to achieve this if you wish.You probably already know this mate but there isn,t a single course out there that will give you the full 6089,beleive me i've looked everywhere.Whether any of the others include the onsite visits in their price i don't know but i have been told the visits vary in price depending on where you live and as you say the assessor has to stay over, so you may be paying more than you hav e to for hte course.Good luck with the course mate if you decide to do it
.You are however registered for the 6089 through viy which is included in the course fee and you have 2 years to achieve this if you wish.You probably already know this mate but there isn,t a single course out there that will give you the full 6089,beleive me i've looked everywhere.Whether any of the others include the onsite visits in their price i don't know but i have been told the visits vary in price depending on where you live and as you say the assessor has to stay over, so you may be paying more than you hav e to for hte course.Good luck with the course mate if you decide to do itWow that is the longest thread I've ever read which is why I feel obligated to carry it on. I myself trained at VIY November/December last year and I have to say I was very impressed with it all. For anybody thinking why is it so much money for only 10 weeks, look at it from George's point of view, Joe takes a fair slice of the cake I expect (rightly so in my opinion as he's vastly knowledgeable and always happy to stay behind after 5:00pm to help you), then there's Simon, Mark, Brian and Steve (Mr Toad)- sorry Steve if your reading ! all these wages, rent for 2 building's in Leeds and of course MATERIALS! I mean just think about all that copper and lead, yes it gets weighed in as scrap but....
And toolkit of course. Don't get me wrong George is doing very well as well I expect but why shouldn't he ?
But on the whole its well worth the money - and if your within traveling distance its even better.
And toolkit of course. Don't get me wrong George is doing very well as well I expect but why shouldn't he ?
But on the whole its well worth the money - and if your within traveling distance its even better.
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taurus77
Thanks for the words of enouragement 'joebaxi' and 'Phil'.
Phil, I understand the running costs of such a centre and I have never had a problem with the cost of the course. I merely approached this forum looking for reassurance that somebody like me with no plumbing knowledge, could come away after 10-weeks with competent plumbing skills (and as a bonus plumbing qualifications). Afterall, having a mortgage and giving up a full-time job to re-train as a plumber is going to be a life-changing event and I have to make sure, with the help of forums like this, that I am doing the right thing (which I now feel confident that I am).
I would like to thank everybody who has participated with this thread. Your advice and critism has been invaluable.
In closing...Phil, how are you honestly getting on in the real world since qualifying 4-months ago?
Phil, I understand the running costs of such a centre and I have never had a problem with the cost of the course. I merely approached this forum looking for reassurance that somebody like me with no plumbing knowledge, could come away after 10-weeks with competent plumbing skills (and as a bonus plumbing qualifications). Afterall, having a mortgage and giving up a full-time job to re-train as a plumber is going to be a life-changing event and I have to make sure, with the help of forums like this, that I am doing the right thing (which I now feel confident that I am).
I would like to thank everybody who has participated with this thread. Your advice and critism has been invaluable.
In closing...Phil, how are you honestly getting on in the real world since qualifying 4-months ago?
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ajs heating
so if you have a morgage how you gonig to get on when you pass with no job.
better inform the morgage that your gonna be falling behind with payment.
cause you won't be earning a great deal and have much work
then theirs a van, tools, p l insurance, advertising the list gos on
better inform the morgage that your gonna be falling behind with payment.
cause you won't be earning a great deal and have much work
then theirs a van, tools, p l insurance, advertising the list gos on
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taurus77
'ajs heating'...I wouldn't be considering a career change if I didn't already have my finances in place which, include being out of work both during and after the course. As mentioned earlier, I am a very cautious person so this is not a fly-by-night decision. Thanks for your concern, but my personal finances are my business and nobody else's.
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ajs heating
with that attitude you won't get far or a job.
wait till the day comes and it will in the plumbing game when you need advice or help and the pro's won't give a jack sh*t.
you got a lot to learn a peice of paper won't get you anywhere you need experience and loose the attitude
wait till the day comes and it will in the plumbing game when you need advice or help and the pro's won't give a jack sh*t.
you got a lot to learn a peice of paper won't get you anywhere you need experience and loose the attitude
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bishbosh77
Hi Phil
Nice to see you have done the VIY course just before me, how much work have you got in? are you still in touch with any of the people on your course?
When i put my bit on here about my course i said what i thought and agree that the guys in workshops were top notch no questions were left unanswered.
I have taken a job to bring some cash in to pay the bills (contract for 5 months only)like someone pointed out and i have the odd job on a weekend.
I have spent £8000 on a van, tools & sign writing, and the van looks the dogs watsits and i have had no work from it....... so make no mistake it is very hard out there i am saving as im working to spend a large amount on advertising a month before i finish and would be willing to work with someone in the same position as me to spread the costs and invest more cash.
By the way i talk to a few lads every few weeks and everybody i have talked to have gone back to what they used to do which should be some kind of warning to people going down this route.
All the best to everybody who is going down this route as i want to make this work so hopefully you will to.
Cheers
Bishbosh77
Nice to see you have done the VIY course just before me, how much work have you got in? are you still in touch with any of the people on your course?
When i put my bit on here about my course i said what i thought and agree that the guys in workshops were top notch no questions were left unanswered.
I have taken a job to bring some cash in to pay the bills (contract for 5 months only)like someone pointed out and i have the odd job on a weekend.
I have spent £8000 on a van, tools & sign writing, and the van looks the dogs watsits and i have had no work from it....... so make no mistake it is very hard out there i am saving as im working to spend a large amount on advertising a month before i finish and would be willing to work with someone in the same position as me to spread the costs and invest more cash.
By the way i talk to a few lads every few weeks and everybody i have talked to have gone back to what they used to do which should be some kind of warning to people going down this route.
All the best to everybody who is going down this route as i want to make this work so hopefully you will to.
Cheers
Bishbosh77
T
taurus77
AJS Heating, sounds like somebody's a little bitter to me.
Thanks for trying to rain on our parade, but at the end of the day, winners like myself, 'Phil', 'joebaxi', and 'oldplumbers' (to mention a few) have simply formed the habit of doing things losers can not and do not like to do.
Attitude or not, here endeth the lesson.
Thanks for trying to rain on our parade, but at the end of the day, winners like myself, 'Phil', 'joebaxi', and 'oldplumbers' (to mention a few) have simply formed the habit of doing things losers can not and do not like to do.
Attitude or not, here endeth the lesson.
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bishbosh77
Hi
I dont think AJS is bitter, just saying its dog eat dog and people love to see new plumbers fail, as we only start to learn when we start working in the real world and no course can prepare you for that.
I dont realy know what you mean by your post aimed at AJS but its not realy helping people viewing this post for advice on courses so chillout ant tell us all how much work you have to give us all a boost knowing we are taking the right steps
I dont think AJS is bitter, just saying its dog eat dog and people love to see new plumbers fail, as we only start to learn when we start working in the real world and no course can prepare you for that.
I dont realy know what you mean by your post aimed at AJS but its not realy helping people viewing this post for advice on courses so chillout ant tell us all how much work you have to give us all a boost knowing we are taking the right steps
Taurus & Bishbosh 77 respectivley,
I wrote a massive reply but it wouldn't post, I am in the very early days and have (since getting 6129 Dec 07) just started advertising with leaflet drops 2 weeks ago.
I've got one job booked in so far, when I get my name out there and with the quality of work I do (Plumbing & Plastering, mostly plumbing) I will get word of mouth recomendations.
BishBosh77 I have consulted Joe a few times while setting up my business, did you say all the lads you got 6129'd up with have all gone back to there old jobs?
If you want to succeed in this trade you have to work for it, there's no get rich quick scheme involved here tell them.
I wrote a massive reply but it wouldn't post, I am in the very early days and have (since getting 6129 Dec 07) just started advertising with leaflet drops 2 weeks ago.
I've got one job booked in so far, when I get my name out there and with the quality of work I do (Plumbing & Plastering, mostly plumbing) I will get word of mouth recomendations.
BishBosh77 I have consulted Joe a few times while setting up my business, did you say all the lads you got 6129'd up with have all gone back to there old jobs?
If you want to succeed in this trade you have to work for it, there's no get rich quick scheme involved here tell them.
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ProffesorPlumb
A very true post there Phil, thanks for that
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joebaxi
Well have just completed the viy course and have spent my weekend pondering on what to do next.I have some savings to set up self employed but am a little worried about entering peoples property and ripping things up and out etc so might spend a couple o weeks trying to source some work experience even if just for a few days to gain some confidence.Am also still trying to get my head round what i need to do to gain the nvq2 qual.Have been told i can get it with just 2 onsite visits,fitting and commissioning a wash hand basin and decommissioning a bath and prepping and fitting the new one.Sounds simple enough but might give it a few months and gain the experience first plus fatten up the portfolio a bit.Would love to hear from anyone who has gained their nvq2 and if they encountered any problems getting it.Anyway cheers and bye for now
J
johnmcginty
Hi All , just started the VIY course and all is going well . It is very enjoyable with a great bunch of guys, the course has now changed and is now 4 weeks classroom based and 6 weeks workshops . I will update this in a few weeks to let everyone know what I think. Bye for now. John
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wrecked_24_7
iv told u this earlier lads ( raises up leg onto table thrusting balls into unlucky guy who sits at front ) the answer was 15mm.... no 22mm.... no i mean 1and 3quarter inches, hahahahahahaha ring any bells?
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