Voice for ALL Gas registered Plumbers

[paulhull]

Hi my name is Paul Hull and I am NOT a plumber.

However my son is fully Gas safe Registered etc and I for my sins help him with paperwork etc as I do not work.
I ran my own business for 15 years selling Mobile Phones.

It is quite clear to me that you guys need a very strong voice, so as you can try to make changes for YOUR INDUSTRY. I reed your letters and articles within the trade press and they are simular to those we experienced some years ago within mobile phones.

My question is should we get togeter to form a voice for you all, with perhaps a cahrge of £10 per year to cover expensives, with any left over given to charity.

Don't have a go at me for this, If you don't think it will work, just don't post, I do think you need a voice.

I have done this before and had some good sucess, I am not looking for work but would be happy to help, as I can see the problems you guys are getting, and will get worse if you are not carefull.

 

[newbie1]

ime happy with my industry and am not quite sure what peoples problem is
ok so every five years we have to show we havnt forgot things or not bothered to read the tech bulletins issued with changes and updates but other than that unless you make a serious mistake all gas safe ask is that you comply with the regs and notify all work that needs it

 

[Puddle]

Hi Paul,think I know your brother rod

I am always the last to find out about things,now I am panicing

What problems in our industry?
What changes do we need?
Why do we need a strong voice?
What have I got to do with mobiel phones,apart from owning one or two ?
and what charity have you started for spare funds ?




imho

 

[newbie1]

i hope the emu isnt going to be the voice

 

[hiretools]

As per Puddles reply

 

[migoplumber]

i can shout pretty loud if need be, and that means i keep my tenner (4pints of guiness). tell me what needs to be shouted and i will have a go

 

[paulhull]

sounds already that it is a case of I am all right jack, My thread was in responce to talking to several other 'Gas Registered' plumbers comments in the trade press and who I have met.

One such problem is un-registered plumbers doing gas work, althought Gas Safe say they are chasing them, the court do not give the correct sentence, so what is the point of paying all the fee's, and another is the retraining for Gas every 5 years.

These are just two, if you are just plumbers and not gas registered, you perhaps don't have these problems,

Oh and by the way, the silly jokes I have heard many times before !!!!

This is an offer, as I stated its for you, if you can't be bothered, no problem, just trying to help, as simple as that.

 

[secret squirrel]

"These are just two, if you are just plumbers and not gas registered, you perhaps don't have these problems"

"just plumbers" don't like this phrase at all.

I'm not gas safe and therefore don't touch gas. I am a professional plumber though.

The correct authorities going after non gas safe operatives for doing gas work. This is the same problem in a lot of industries, driving instructors who are not qualified taking payment for lessons. How do you catch them? luck really.

Having a body (union) to help apply pressure to the industry to catch them, won't help, unless there is more funding for investigation of complaints, where will the money come from? raising the fee already paid for by gas safe people with probably negligble results.

There is no easy solution to this issue,

I can go to my supplier and buy a boiler or B & Q install it in my own house following the manufacturers guide line etc. turn it on never register it who is going to do something? (that is unless it goes bang!)

 

[paulhull]

secret squirrel, I never said that none gas plumbers were not professional, simply that Gas registered plumbers have these issue's.

You are correct in saying this would be a pressure body, and it would be upto the HSE to chase these un-registered people.

The second point that ONLY applies to gas registered Plumbers, is that every 5 Years they have to re-take, re-train which cost's nearly £1000 for the course, plus a weeks lost earnings, and I beleive it is ONLY that trade that has to do so, and with many small (one or two emplyee's) business's this cost is simply out of order and wrong and should be done differently, and then in-conjuction with none registered people doing gas work, when they are caught (if they are), get a simple smack on the wrist, the question tobe asked is it worth paying to be registered, I think it is however things need a change, and currently small plumbing business's have no voice to have the industry should go forward and what changes need tobe made, the only information that HSE etc have are from the likes of Bristish gas etc.

 

[Bernie2]

The whole industry needs a voice not just Plumbing /gas fitters. The public are part of it as well. After all the whole registration set up is to safeguard the public.

The problem is without knowledge, the public don't know if they are getting a cowboy job or a good one.

Its a bit late when you get a KER! BOOM! and their house goes sailing into orbit or worse still carbon monoxide sends people to sleep.

As I wrote in another mail, the job of over sighting the industry has been given to GaSafe who unlike The Council of Registered Gas Installers i.e CORGI, is supposed to act as an arbiter between the public and the industry unlike CORGI who represented the installers side only.

Privately a CORGI inspector who I knew quite well, said to me that their inspectors where so busy trying to sort out complaints against registered installers that they had very few inspectors to inspect installers work.

All that tells me, is that the customers need protecting from the installers as well as the other way around.

The thing is, how much sub standard work gets done because the customer has no idea, through lack of knowledge, if a job is sub standard or not and why if a fitter has had training should there be a need for his or her work to be inspected by GaSafe?

Surely it should be top standard by virtue of their training?

But it obviously seems that is not so, even registered fitters can get it wrong often enough to require an inspection agency.

Inform people how things are done properly and they will know for themselves then.

The industry is dripping with cash and some gas supplier companies are perhaps making hundreds of millions, yet it seems no money can be found to give away free gas training courses to anybody who wants one.

It seems even basic gas info is charged at astronomical prices. The more people know the safer they will be hopefully.

The whole industry needs looking at not just the installers.

 

[newbie1]

why on gods green earth would anyone give away free gas training courses
nobody gives anything away for free otherwise it becomes a worthless commodity
if you want something you have to pay for it nothing in life is free

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

why on gods green earth would anyone give away free gas training courses
nobody gives anything away for free otherwise it becomes a worthless commodity
if you want something you have to pay for it nothing in life is free

i got a coupon for a free sample of washing powder



In response to this thread I can safely say that your proposal will not be accepted, it is another monthly over head. To me it sounds like you want to create a Gasafe 'gasafe' to over look Gasafe. Lets call it 'OFGAS' (Trademark Pending)

In short, thanks but not thanks

 

[paulhull]

Bernie 2

in most I agree, but the public do have many laws and TV programmes.
I agree we must get rid of the cowboys, some of which have posted on this thread, but as I understand some of the problems of not registering is the yearly & 5 yearly COST.

Gas Safe register has and is set up to mainly help the public.

My point is the smaller Gas Registered Plumber does not have any voice in ANY area whatsoever, whether it is getting rid of cowboys, putting forward new and also change ideas etc etc.

To the one's who posted that are concered about cost, as stated I have set up a similar body before, with some sucess, in attending meetings etc there is a cost, therefore that is why a small YEARLY SUBSCRIPSION in needed.

IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO JOIN SIMPLY DONN'T. IT IS VERY EASY.

As i have said before, it is easy to call someone for trying, and sit back and say 'I'M allright Jack', but changes are requiried for all.

 

[newbie1]

i predict 2 members you and your son

 

[secret squirrel]

Just a quick post,

gas safe people are not the only ones to have to re-qualify (attend course, check knowledge etc),

There are quite a few industries where professionals have to attend training courses or seminars etc.

Am I correct in thinking that the £1000 spent is tax deductable, although agreed you do loose a weeks wage.

 

[Bernie2]

Surprising as it may seem, gas fitting training in the past was free to a great extent.

If you worked for a company that did gas fitting they trained you at their expense. In return you worked for them usually at a slightly reduced rate until you where competent and could earn full money.

Its only over recent years when it was probably noticed how much cash could be made out of training courses that all the thousands of pounds for course fees came in.

It was not helped of course by the government taking the training colleges funding away, forcing them to charge more for their courses.

And the employers thinking the government or employee should help pay for training instead.

Incidentally an employed gas fitter, as far as I am aware, cannot claim tax relief on training costs only perhaps when your self employed.

I suppose its all part of the mad way the industry is run. A gas supplier who probably would not make a penny if the gas fitter never fitted the appliances is allowed to get off virtually free and make millions. While gas fitters have to pay ridiculously high course fees.

The better off in the industry should help to pay for those at the bottom so everybody including the customer gets a fair deal.

 

[migoplumber]

the biggest problem you have paul is accepting the fact of a registration body.

us gas safe registered and as i interpretate your comments other "dodgy plumbers" have allready accepted that and carry on. yes its poo. how do you think me giving you a tenner a year is gonna change that. sure you can trot off and complain to everybody claiming to be the voice of 2 million gas fitters.

do you not think its possible that the government,hse and all friends and relatives have a little sticky finger in the pie and are all licking a little cream? do you truly believe your gonna achieve anything with 20million quid - i think not when gassafe is creaming 800 million from them 2 million blokes

we accept that - its poo - but thats life

come to think of it, i'm setting up a club as well. 7.50 for yearly membership and i will speak for you and send you some emails! - email for bank details

 

[paulhull]

Ok if thats your thoughts, I could not give a .., but yes i would make a difference, but with all your negitive comments, it shows how poor your industry is, and I would surgest most of you who commented in this thread, must be some who are allready fiddleing the system, so do not want change.
As i stated before, I did a similar thing within the mobile phone industry, with similar comments from the few, we did acheive a lot of change for the benefit of all.
On a cost thing as stated, ANY AND ALL monies left each year would be given to charity, but ask yourself why should anyone help everyone effected at his/her personall cost? That is plain stupid, do you not think. oh and by the way if you can't afford £10 you should not be in business anyway.
Thanks

Good Bye

 

[newbie1]

get a life mate take up crochet or something no one asked for your help

 

[Toddyplumb]

I think this has already been done and is up and running , search ARGI

 

[heatserve]

Ok if thats your thoughts, I could not give a toss, but yes i would make a difference, but with all your negitive comments, it shows how poor your industry is, and I would surgest most of you who commented in this thread, must be some who are allready fiddleing the system, so do not want change.
As i stated before, I did a similar thing within the mobile phone industry, with similar comments from the few, we did acheive a lot of change for the benefit of all.
On a cost thing as stated, ANY AND ALL monies left each year would be given to charity, but ask yourself why should anyone help everyone effected at his/her personall cost? That is plain stupid, do you not think. oh and by the way if you can't afford £10 you should not be in business anyway.
Thanks

Good Bye

In order to be the 'voice' of the industry, you have to possess decent communication skills and sadly, you don't.

There are a staggering 6 remedial spelling mistakes in your last post and not one of your previous posts were grammatically or literally correct, quite apart from the fact that I had no idea how you were hoping to change things, or indeed, how you were qualified to do so.

We have people who are far more convincing than you trying to scam money out of us every day. Most of them seem to be scousers for some reason.

 

[Bernie2]

Yes it may be us scousers!

But you don't mind do you!

We are so nice about it!!!

 

[Puddle]

Anyway Paul,Sorry to see you a bit distressed about the reaction to your idea, however must agree your communication skills are a tad wanting and have not helped sell yourself very well
Was interested about your time in the mobile phone industry,what group did you start and what results did you achieve

Speaking of mobile phones

I am about to get a mobile upgrade and just wondered, what your thoughts were about the 'I phone' against the 'blackberry' and will members of this new club get any discount



imho


imho

I think this has already been done and is up and running , search ARGI

£50 a year or 5 years for £200,that could make some serious money,must be doing a good job coz I have never heard of them

 

[heatserve]

Yes it may be us scousers!

But you don't mind do you!

We are so nice about it!!!

I enjoy the witty banter, especially when they start the conversation with "could you take on more work at all?"

 

[migoplumber]

puddle, just got my blackberry delivered 3 days ago. joined to my emails lovely new tool.
free phone 20quid a month for 300mins. 300texts. unlimited email. unlimited internet
downer 24 month contract, but its a good price plan. t mobile